Will You Renew

So better the devil we know and continue down this path?
No offence, but thats weak.

We all know the structure of the club, the point is hopefully that those with the real power take note and engage with the fans a little to understand the route we want to see the club go down.
It is not for me and you to pick who the next CEO is, that is down to the major shareholders, I'll leave it to them to suss that one out.
But sticking by the same old routine is doing nothing but harming the club as we see it. Standing by and doing nothing should not be the option (agree in the first line Tim, taking any sentiment and emotion some will have regarding emotional attachment to a ticket).

 

Unless the club totally restructures and brings itself into the 21st century then no. I have other things I am saving for and the 540 plus whatever they bump it up by this year can go towards that

 

Respect peoples decision to renew its their choice.

But its simple really the board will only deal with finances if they are good they will ignore us if they are bad they will listen.

If you dont renew (i agree) then you are standing up to the boards mismanagement if you do renew then you are basically telling the board you are prepared to put up with their
mismanagement

In the case of renewing i dont understand how you can complain how things are going.

 

@Tim-Time 1888

Asking what the alternative is no longer prudent; it is just an excuse for inaction. We cannot afford to be paralysed by a fear of something worse: the current set-up is utterly toxic.

Lawwell is a charlatan. He is so shrewd an operator that the circus across the river has not only caught up with us but eclipsed us in the space of eight years. He has consistently failed to consolidate positions of strength, both on and off the field - through cronyism, negligence, and overreach - and has cost us a veritable fortune in foolish investments and lost revenue. He must go.

 

Renewing my ST will depend totally on what happens re the board and the management and for that to be achieved, Lennon , his management team and Lawwell must all go. On a personal level, it will kill me not to renew my ST as I have been following the Hoops for over 50 + years .It has been a major part of my life however, I can't remember when I have felt so low as a fan considering I have been through the "bad years" as many a "Celtic Da" would say but, for me, its different this time as Lawell etc. have made ne feel as if I don't feel part of the club now. So, unless there is significant change at the Club then I won't be renewing

 

I don’t think too many dispute the above. But you haven’t answered @Tim-Time 1888 ’s question, you haven’t given an alternative. There doesn’t appear to be one.

If the rumours are true, his replacement is another tory charlatan from Scottish Rugby. Who’s raked in some enormous bonuses from that organisation in the past. It’ll be like for like whilst the club’s ownership remains as is.

And despite the best efforts of the Celtic Trust, that sadly seems inevitable over the short to medium term.

 

Totally depends on how ambitious the board are, a Brendan Rodgers level of appointment and it will sell out.

 

The onus is not on me, or any other supporter, to suggest an alternative. There are presumably people at the club who are well paid to make such appointments.

People make the same argument (albeit disingenuously) to justify Lennon's continued tenure. If one suggests a manager who is attainable, they argue that they are undesirable; if one suggests a manager who is desirable, they argue that they are unattainable. It is a futile exercise.

 

Obviously the onus isn’t on you to appoint a new chief exec. That’s not my question.

Surely you can see that the current owners will appoint another charlatan just like Lawwell when he’s had enough?

The owners aren’t going anywhere. The club’s structure isn’t changing. Money hungry chief execs will continue to call the shots and drawdown from the club. It makes * all difference whether the name on the office door is Lawwell or not

 

Probably will tbh, only had it since 2015 and while things under Ronny were pretty poor at times, we were still winning the league and don't wanna look like a glory hunter.
That being said, my priorities have changed a bit and don't know if I will be able to commit as much time to it. Want to wait and see when we can get back into games aswell, paying a fortune for a * stream in addition to the way the board have treated us has really * me off this season. Probably will though then see how the lay of the land is the following season.

 

There's truth to what you're saying which is why we may need to withdraw our financial support to instigate that change.

The LTPIP scheme is still far too heavily skewed in favour of providing profit for the PLC, than achieving KPIs of the football club. A bonus should only be made payable for a year where both have been achieved but at present bonuses can be banked for a 5 year period and are payable upon UCL qualification of the football club.

If Lawwell goes and the next man is given the same financial incentives that skew too favourably to the PLC then there's every chance they might act in the same way.

Hopefully those on the board understand the widespread anger among the support, if they don't then they're about to feel it. Piecemeal changes like a new manager and leaks to the Daily Record that we're going to spend 'X million' this summer won't work, I'm sure of it.

 

Whether its viewed as weak or not is debatable but its pragmatic and that's what I tend to always be. I'm sure there will be big changes made from the folk who have undoubtedly contributed to a massive * up this season. So that and based on the previous dominance we have enjoyed I'll not be looking to chase them all out, as some seem to be looking for when I read Lawwell/Lenny/DD out etc. I suspect that is just easy to say as the reality of that happening all at once just won't be a thing as far as I can see.
You are right though, you, I or anyone on here won't be picking the next CEO but if folk shout for a massive clear out like they are doing they should at least be able to point to something in terms of what happens should they all be cleared/chased out, but as I said above there is nothing on that. So, sometimes doing nothing/little, while very boring and potentially frustrating, is the only option and that is pretty much were we are, imo. That changes if someone has approx what 50/100 million they feel the need to buy out DD with.. - assuming he would even sell which I doubt.

I would argue its always prudent to ask as much can be learnt from the answer but also from the non answer mate so that is not inaction. By the looks of it simply removing PL only sees a similar CEO replace him, so it's DD who needs removed and that ain't going to happen in the short term, if at all imo. So not renewing won't make much of a difference in the CEO, it'll just leave the club with less income. Which I don't need to tell anyone isn't a good thing.

I notice you replied to Bobo saying the onus isn't on you or any supporter etc while you say that's up to those at the Club to deal with, I kinda agree with you under normal circumstances and if it was just the CEO, but the problem here is folk are demanding a full clear out from DD down.. so who is going to prepare for that at the club ? Do we really want DD to simply sell to whoever offers him the highest amount/makes an acceptable offer ? Is that wise given we could have as I said above, semi joking, the chuckles greens of this world bidding ? Admittedly we could get an Abramovich although I think we would all agree due to our location/league that's highly unlikely. So its more likely to be a mike ashley type *Shudders* who would be interested. So while I dont expect specific answers to who, I would hope folk have thought about the reality of what happens next should DD be chased/replaced because overall he hasn't been bad for us, sure he has got to pick and chose games etc and he gets the privilege to be a VIP at CP but it could have been worse.


Having said all of this maybe I do overthink it all but uncertainty in my career/Industry is the biggest fear/dislike we have and that is probably so deeply ingrained in me now I'll never stop disliking it. Even though at times large amounts of profit can be made, the downside to that though is usually others have had a large loss because they got impatient..

 

Had time to sleep in it and my answer is still no

 

Can't overly argue against, nor want to (in a friendly and polite manner) bud.
I do see your view - not to be harsh, I stand by my points as well - and totally understand and get it. Fair play, you understand the situation, you understand the feelings and what needs to happen, but you are realistic that obviously we won't wake up in July to a total regime change.

As you say, someone would need to buy DD out, in the most simplest form of getting drastic changes. Never going to happen.

I/we all want the same thing at the end of the day, I said earlier in the thread, I won't begrudge or be overtly critical on folk who will renew, I get the sentiment values and I get your outlook to it as well. I just see it different and think/hope enough on the same side would force some sort of change, even if it is just the removal of PL and a few others in favour of a CEO who would look to be more squad building focused on Europe than idly sitting by just being better than the rest of Scotland.
It's going to take a massive shift in approach to running a football club - football over profit (while never letting money to be wasteful) should be the approach. Not the shareholders dividend payout, which seems to be the case.

 

Ach its better to call me a * and that allows me to call you a * back .. seriously though -

Each person has to make up their own mind - i just hope folk aren't overly influenced by those who have been moaning about the current set up since day 1 basically, while I have an issue with that I genuinely can't be arsed arguing it. You have hit the nail on the head when you say about DD, For some to get what they want he needs to be removed and that opens all sorts of questions/what ifs.
Only thing I would say to you mate is the dividend payout is basically neither here nor there and is hardly worth discussing. From memory it would pay the annual salary of not even a bench warmer for the first team. I would virtually go as far as to say that the likes of Nick Train investing in the PLC is a decent sign on how the Club is run as fund managers like certainty.

 

It is like being between a rock and a hard place. If enough don't renew and the board remain stubborn and intransigent then Celtic could go into a spiral of decline for years but if we all just renew then nothing changes. What I've found most annoying is the disconnect between the club and the fans - they act like they think we're fools when I think we actually have one of the most intelligent fan bases in football. I could have put up with losing the 10 and poor performances if they had been more honest with the fans and shown more humility - from Lennon telling us we played great when we could all see we were actually pish to putting up barriers around the stadium to keep fans out.
We laughed at the huns when they supported their team in great numbers when they faced the consequences of years of mismanagement resulting in them going bust. We're in a similar though not quite as serious situation now. Do we continue to support the team/club or cast them adrift and do other things instead. Is it loyalty or stupidity to continue to support them.
I'll probably hold out for as long as possible then renew but might reduce to 2 tickets in the family from 3 as not getting to as many games anyway (before the lockdown).

 

It's not that simple for a lot of people myself included Celtic and going to the games is a huge part of your life huge social aspect to it as well being it going with your mates or family lots of season tickets have been in families for generations. I respect and fully understand those who wont renew but I couldn't purely because I would miss it too much nothing to do with funding the board or whatever but purely from a selfish point of view I would miss it. I also don't mean this to come across as cheeky to any non season book holders (Not directed at yourself I've no idea if you have a season book) but it's so much easier to say you wouldn't renew if you don't have a season book and don't actually have the decision to make.

I'm also not trying to come across as an uber tim keep the faith brigade because I want change at the club as much as anyone else

 

I voted no the other night in anger, but in all honesty I'm not sure.
I love my seat, I like the people that sit around me, I enjoy spending the time with my brother away from work and family life.
I have genuinely missed it so much this year, so I'm not so sure I would like to miss out on it next year.

I do however want things to change at our club. Starting at board level. It's so fuking frustrating.

 

Well put mate,for the record i dont have a ST and your rite its easier said than done.

I guess its a difficult choice for us all,we all love the club but hate the way its been ran at the moment and want to show our displeasure.

Sad thing is the board only listen to us if moneys not coming in,so i guess its down to each individual as to how much they can stomach with regards to not buying merch,or renewing season tickets.HH

 

As I live abroad, it's clearly not an option for me. I get that it is a very hard decision for existing holders, matches are a big part of their lives, meeting up with family, friends etc.

After that self-serving scripted BS "interview" with Lawwell, I am so **** off with DD/PL/NL that I probably would not renew if I were a holder.

I respect the decision of every existing holder to renew or not as they see fit.

I would certainly encourage people to, at least, hold off on purchasing merchandise until we know what is happening next season.

If people are allowed to attend matches next season, then it provides a platform to show the anger that I think we all feel.

If we still have NL or JK as manager, Lawwell in place and the performances are no better - at least there is scope for organized protest - turn up late\leave early at a pre-arranged time etc.

I think the COVID lockdown has allowed DD/PL/NL to cover up the level of anger and demand for change among the fans. Its only people on the forums\YouTube who get it.

If we had crowds at the televised matches, I think they'd be addressing the issues with a higher priority.