When USA collapses

You really have very little understanding of American culture, also you are comparing established nations like britain and italy whose people have been around for thousands of years while America is a patchwork of Irish, German, French, Italian, Chinese, Mexican, and really every culture out there, all of whome moved to the US and gradually contributed in their own way to our national identity, which itself as only existed for about 200 years and our contirbution in that time has been pretty substantial, if you have ever flown on a plane, used a telephone, or even just using the internet which you have obviously done, you are seeing some of America's contirbutions to the world. I myself am a immigrant to the US having been born in Ireland and brought over as a child by my parents and I can tell you that you have grossly undervaulued a culture that you obviously know little about. Oh and die_hard_bhoy you forgot Walt Whitman who is considered one of the greatest poets of all time

 

The atomic bombs actually saved lives, millions more japanese civlians would have died in invasion plus the millions of Japanese, british, australian, russian, chinese, and american soldiers who would have died in the invasion and if the war continued

 

Ive done that alright, not going to argue with you despite your absolute lack of concrete arguments and your severe tendency to overrate your adopted country, but yes Ive made a gross generalization and was unfairly tough with what it is, for the most part, a great country. I like Whitman a lot, more so when I was a teenager. You know who is a great american poet? Robert Frost*

Most of those inventions though werent americans, or from the US (America is actually a continent that includes south and north america). Edison copied several originals from Tesla, who was a serbian, if my memory serves me right, later an american. The genesis of the internet is actually a system they had in France in the 80s, but its a bit like saying that the english didnt invent football but the aztecs or chinese, so yes in practical terms the internet is an american invention. This takes me to what is perhaps the best trait of americans, to take other people's or countries ideas and upgrade them or modify them for mass consumption.

Devlin said something which I agree with about the americans being remembered as practical people. Definitely. A country solely obsessed with money, more than any other empire I can remember. Obviously every empire has been obsessed with money but not as the only driving force, while america is a country, throughout history from the early settlers, made on the basis of achieving economical wealth.

Its true the US is young, but this was their peak moment, most countries left more at their apex. I think the US great achievements are dwarfed by any other big empire in history, in fact calling the US an empire is a bit of a stretch, calling them a big empire is absolute nonsense that doesnt stand any serious analysis. Bigwill, would you say the US is or was a big empire, if so could you mention what are these great achievements, other than phones (ehem, invented by a scot!)?

*
THE DOOR IN THE DARK
In going from room to room in the dark,
I reached out blindly to save my face,
But neglected, however lightly, to lace
My fingers and close my arms in an arc.
A slim door got in past my guard,
And hit me a blow in the head so hard
I had my native simile jarred.
So people and things don't pair any more
With what they used to pair with before.

 

to an american yeah the americans are going to be more important. if someone gave you a choice, no way out of it one must die, between your mum and someone who attacked you in a bar who would you choose?

 

Thing is the Atomic Bombs saved more lives on both sides because I truly believe they would've needed to genocide Japan before they were going to surrender otherwise.

 

When the Americans took over Okinawa, the first island traditionally part of the Japanese empire, after an American victory became clear, the Japanese army got civilians to commit mass suicide rather than be captured. How much worse would it have been on mainland Japan if a traditional invasion had been pursued?

Furthermore, while the atomic bombs were the weapons most destructive to human life in WWII, their dropping was not the most destructive event. The most destructive events were traditional battles over huge population centers (leningrad, stalingrad, Nanking).

The dropping of the A-bombs is controversial (especially the second one for me, which happened to be dropped on Japan's only Catholic population who would have likely been most friendly to the Americans), but there is a logic there that extends beyond the bloodlust you're seeking to ascribe to it.

 

I shoulda remembered him, I'm from the same island as him (Long Island). I was focusing on 1900s though.

I could have also included Twain, Poe, and probably more.


Let's not forget the political thought that originated here. I sat in on a speech by one of our Supreme Court's judges and he brought up an interesting fact. America is the only country to have a government founded by a several month long seminar by the country's best thinkers: Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Adams, among many others.
The american government, especially in its original form, is a fascinating creature that has proved more durable than most european efforts at democracy (save, maybe Britain who have transitioned over the years from monarchy to autocracy to democracy)

 

it came from a desperation to end the war, it had gone on long enough, the second bomb was questionable, but the japanese thought the americans only had one and attempted to call their bluff

had they gotten intelligence that the americans only had 2 atomic bombs (instead of the assumed 3 after they had already dropped 2) the war wouldve raged on, and the atomic bombs would have been used as propaganda

its hard for me to condone the mass murder of innocent civilians but its even harder for me to find an answer as to why the war shouldve gone on longer, i guess we finally agree on something

 

I think this Daily Telegraph article shows how much America has fallen in prestige and respect around the world. Once you are on the slippery slope it can be hard to rectify it.

President Obama looks like a lame duck on the world stage as US global leadership goes AWOL
President Obama looks like a lame duck on the world stage as US global leadership goes AWOL – Telegraph Blogs

 

I think it's probably the hardest decision that has ever been made.

 

more right wing propaganda pish

 

Tesla worked for Thomas edison and used much of what he learned from him later in his life not the other way around. The internet had nothing to do with any french network but was in fact based on US military communications systems that went back to the 1960's. Eisha Gray was the real inventor of the modern telephone but it has long been held that Bell stole much of his research. I have said earlier in this thread that I do not believe that the US is an empire, a superpower yes but not an empire. We do not have the impearalistic aspirations that GB or Rome had if we did we would control all of North America by now. Yes the US economy is in trouble but so is every Nation's.

Having lived in China and seen firsthand how there economy works and how the social programs of their country work, I can say without a doubt that they will never be able to operate as the worlds only superpower, their economy is based on the demands of other industrialized nations, not to mention that they have the most corrupt and poorly run government of any modern nation, and calling them modern would be a stretch, Outside the big cities is poverty known only in the most barren sections of Africa. Pollution and a crumbling infrastructure are also 2 huge problems that they have yet to address.

 

That's probably one of the worst articles I've ever read from a national newspaper.
Any author that praises Bush's foreign policy is an absolute, utter, utter cretinous moron.

 

I don't think he is praising Bush's foreign policy, he is just comparing it with the Obama administration. The article itself I think is bang on the barrel.

Anyways if Iran gets the bomb we are all *.
Israel Matzav: The morning after
The morning after

Boaz Ganor writes that the Obama administration seems determined to go down in history as the administration on whose watch Iran went nuclear. He then gives a graphic - and realistic - description of what the morning after a nuclear Iran would resemble. And then he briefly says that if Iran is not to be stopped then the nations of the world must have a totally devastating second-strike capability to contain Iran.

But Iran will not be contained by a second strike capability because it is an apocalyptic regime that is more than willing to destroy itself to bring the '12th imam.' Please note the items I am highlighting in Ganor's narrative.

When the sun rises the day following Iran’s acquisition of a nuclear bomb, the world will awaken to a highly combustive reality: The US, the dominant nuclear superpower, will instantly lose its international hegemony, as we will witness the emergence of a radical Islamic nuclear superpower. Many Middle Eastern and Asian states will race toward nuclear proliferation.

But the most immediately threatened and first to capitulate will be the oil emirates of the Gulf and Arab states, like Iraq and perhaps even Saudi Arabia, whose oil reserves will be swiftly conquered by Iranian forces.

Who would dare block the “messenger of Allah,” armed with a nuclear bomb, from attaining regional hegemony from Lebanon to Oman? To be sure, we will see an outpouring of protests and condemnations, but the world will likely sit back as Iran marches toward realizing its strategy of enslaving the oil-dependent West.

Iran will match its military conquests with intensified support of subversive activity in other states. A nuclear armed Iran will reach out to local Islamic fundamentalist movements in Arab and Muslim countries and assist their takeover through either democratic elections or violence, and then will sign pacts with its new allies.

Iran will not hesitate to use vassal terror organizations – Hizbullah in Lebanon, Hamas in the Palestinian arena, Shi’ite elements in Iraq and elsewhere – to promote its interests. Under the Iranian nuclear umbrella, these organizations will be immune to reprisal.

THIS IS not a worst-case scenario, but a completely reasonable estimate of what will happen from the moment Iran achieves nuclear capability. Efforts to persuade it to forgo its nuclear aspirations through negotiation or sanctions are doomed to fail. This is a regime which sent its own children to their deaths during the Iran-Iraq war. At that time, thousands of children were ordered to obey a “divine command” and march directly into Iraqi minefields, paving the way for Iranian troops with their young corpses. Such a regime would not even blink when it comes to jeopardizing its economy or sacrificing its international interests for the sake of its ultimate goals.

The only way to prevent this scenario is through a sweeping military operation. Only one country has the power to take on an operation of this scale; it is the country with the most at stake and the greatest interest in preventing this new world disorder. That country is the United States.

US motives for preventing a nuclear Iran are numerous, starting with the direct threat already posed by an Islamic fundamentalist state openly developing long-range missiles capable of reaching any target in the Western world. Add the fact that Hizbullah has already infiltrated American soil, cultivating sleeper terror cells.

Yet by far the greatest motive is that a nuclear Iran will signal the instant loss of support from its traditional Middle Eastern allies, beginning with Egypt, Jordan and the Gulf states. Iran’s intensive courtship of these countries has long been in full force, lobbying them to cut their American ties and transfer allegiance to the rising regional nuclear power. This trend will only intensify once Iran has the Bomb. Having felt that they have bet on the wrong horse by opting for a special relationship with the US, we will see one country after the other cash in its American chips to buy Iranian favor.

A parallel and no-less-dangerous process will be the wave of nuclear proliferation across the Middle East and central Asia. Iran’s traditional adversaries, fearful of an Iranian invasion, will do everything possible to acquire their own nuclear weapons. This process obviously flies in the face of the Obama administration’s openly declared objective to prevent nuclear proliferation.

Worse yet is the clear and present danger of Iranian Islamic radical terrorist affiliates, armed with a divine command, unleashing nuclear weapons far beyond Iran’s borders.

Should President Barack Obama refrain from taking proactive steps and attacking Iran’s nuclear facilities, every country in the world will be thrown into a new, much more complicated and dangerous Cold War-like situation, triggered by the multi-polar nuclear environment.

Next to the tough dilemmas this new state of affairs will pose, the Cuban missile crisis will seem like child’s play.​

Either someone stops Iran from going nuclear or it is likely that the entire Western way of life will - * forbid - be destroyed.

 

not to mention their human rights record and their occupation of and genocide in tibet.

 

It will yet again likely fall to Isreal to Bomb Iran's reactors

 

Try reading something not written by a self described 'ultra orthodox Jew'. I'm probably going out on a limb here but he's probably not the most fair and balanced source.


You know it's the fault of the UK and US that we have there is a dominant Islamic extremist element in charge of Iran just now? Iran was a stable, progressive and democratic nation in the middle east before the UK and US decided it wasn't in their best interest to have a government that would not respond to their beck and call. So, to fix this, they deliberately fomented a revolution.

 

or the billions of dollars america sell the saudi govt..a country that is the most unprogressive, pan islamic, obscurantist scum on the earth..not just that their printing press sell thousands of extremist interpretations of the koran, yet america sell those cocksuckers arms.

unbelievable, probably. Suprising, no.

the very same american govt who sponsor terrorism, then it comes back to bite them.

 

There is a good chance that will happen as I don't see the present US administration doing anything about it.They are too busy reaching out in appeasement to everybody, and getting sand kicked back in their faces.
Perhaps this deadly Stuxnet virus that is afflicting all the Iranian military and nuclear facilities, is a precursor to a military attack on all their nuclear
establishments. We shall see.

 

They are now saying that the Stuxnet virus most likely originated from the US and Germany in a joint venture.