Virgil van Dijk

Aye but I think that's a big part of him being exposed, a lot of the time he's needing to be the one who attacks and who protects in behind in Europe. Whereas Big Vic was the one who attacked everything and let Wilson and Ambrose cover in behind him.

He was exceptional at it. I can't choose between them but technically Van Dijk is miles above, I mean that in terms of passing/free kicks/control/skill etc.

Wanyama had some of that, a massive frame, excellent timing of the tackle and absolute exceptional positioning.

There's nothing between them I don't think, I just * wish we got to see them together. Only way that'll happen is if we watch a Southampton game next season

Still reckon that's where he'll end up.

 

I think it's sometimes down to a lapse in concentration. That could well come from him strolling through games domestically, then having to step up a few levels though.

I completely agree regarding technical ability. I was actually quite critical about that aspect of Wanyama's game. However, as I originally said, I don't think we will get as much for Van Dijk mainly because of the positions both play. Finding a player to play Wanyama's role, and play it well, is more difficult in my opinion.

 

The club has to offer him a new deal if he does not sign it then sell him, we can't drop the ball like Hooper and Ledley, this is crunch time for us he has two years left so I hope we offer him a deal if he wants to move on then get him sold ASAP so we can replace him. 8-10 million would be a good fee for him.

 

Aye, there's a severe lack of top class defensive midfielders these days. Don't know why that is but it's true!

Ultimately I think it comes down to Wanyama's performances against Barcelona though. That added an extra couple of million on to his price tag as well.

 

True but you'd have to question what epl scouts are doing when you've got a big, young, ball playing, scoring centre half next door. If there is no demand for him, albeit the country he's playing in, I'd find that staggering as the epl is hoaching defensively at the minute..

 

Defensive minded players are being bred out the game simply because you aren't allowed to tackle anymore, you know what I mean by that right?

The game is/has evolved to favour attacking football, one striker, five midfielders who are more creative and slight, greater passing ability to retain possession, better agility and pace to return to a defensive shape to press when possession is lost.

Full backs rarely do defensive work like they used to, stand off and keep shape. Inverted full backs now coming inside to flood the middle to retain possession. Most full backs are loaded with pace and expected to be 5 yards off the opposition bye-line.

What do you have left, rarely in the midfield five you will find a proper ball winner, strength and grit.

Two center backs, the only real defenders on the park. Now they want these guys to have a far superior passing ability, ability to join the midfield when the more advanced players move forward.

Your looking for Defensive Midfielders, you'll likely find that position in modern football is a central defender. Can tackle, can pass, 6ft+, decent pace. Virgil Van Dijk could play that position.

Days of old, centre backs didnt pass, they got the ball removed from their feet by the midfielders, because they had very limited passing ability and mobility.

The typical combination you'll see now in a flat back four is one real central defender, limited passing ability, limited pace, total brick wall tho. His partner will be what your looking for in a defensive midfielder.

Thats my analysis of it anyhoo, maybe I'm wrong and someone could offer their viewpoint on it. (Short retorts not welcome, if you do yer a *)

 

It's as good an explanation as any but you would think you'd have a lot more Makelele types then, readers of the game, interceptors, those defensive type of players who are always in the way rather than the Roy Keane/Paddy Vieira type.

You're right that tackling is slowly being bred out of football though, you would expect players to adapt to it.

 

* Advocaat going to Sunderland makes me think he will end up there

 

As I said before, his value will be determined by the market this summer, simple as that.

 

But that doesn't necessarily match up with his value to us.

 

That's an entirely different ballgame though, isn't it? How long has he got left on his deal?

 

No, it's the same game. It's deciding to sell him or not, he has 2 years left on his deal.

 

We can have our own value of him, but his actual market value will be determined by the market itself. If we value him at £10 million, yet no one is willing to pay that kind of money for him then he's not worth that amount in the marketplace at the moment.

As I also said, it all depends on various factors. He could be worth more next summer, or less.

That's what always gets me about people seeing someone like Raheem Sterling being touted at £40 million and saying "he's not worth that". A player is worth what a team is willing to pay.

 

No he isn't though.

Wanyama was putting in dominating performances against Barcelona, while Van Dijk has underwhelmed in Europe for the most part.

£8 million is what I'd expect for a player of his calibre.

 

We should not be accepting 64% of the fee we got for Wanyama. We shouldn't sell for any less than £10m and we should be asking for £12.5m.

 

That's completely ignoring his value to ourselves and value for money though.

It's not just about the marketplace value, there are other factors in there. If you can get a player exactly as good as Raheem Stirling for £10m, it isn't value for money to spend and extra £30m on Stirling. That's why some players aren't worth their reported market value. Over paying the odds, even if their are some clubs that it doesn't matter to and will spend the cash whatever the costs.

 

It isn't really, as those factors will play a part in determining his value to us as a club (intangible values i'd maybe call them, such as his value to the team in Champions League qualification and so forth), but the overriding main factor is the marketplace value placed on the player, which is generated by interested clubs.

For example, if we receive three offers for him this summer, none of which are above £8 million and we decide not to sell we are perfectly within our rights to do that (how the players reacts is another matter of course, and can play a huge part in how that kind of situation would progress).

If we then get to next summer and the players contract is now one year away from ending and he isn't interested in signing a new one, his market value will again be dictated by what potential buyers are willing to pay. Granted, there'll be a different set of factors in play by then (other players on the market, Van Dijk's performances, any injury issues etc).

What will teams pay for a player with a year left on his deal? Especially if that player isn't interested in staying?

We can fold our arms and reiterate that we value him at £12 million, but if no one's paying that then he isn't worth that amount.

I'm not talking about reported market value though, i'm talking about actual market value.

If Manchester City pay £40 million for Sterling then he's a player worth £40 million in the marketplace. Some fans and pundits may not value him at that, but that's simply opinion.

The fact would be that a team paid £40 million for him, and value him at that price.

 

I know what you're getting at but you know full well people are talking about value for money when people say that players aren't worth a price tag. Case in point, Andy Carroll is a £36m striker for Liverpool, he wasn't worth that money regardless of price paid.

Take Gary Hooper for example, we got £5m for him with a year left on his contract to go. If it's a hit of £3m, to sell Van Dijk next season, then I'd rather do that. Which we would be very capable of getting.

I know you're trying to be pedantic but it's a bit pointless if you narrow it down to just the factors you're saying, it doesn't reflect the real life value.

 

Tbf, we know we can get decent money from Sunderland if they want Virgil...* Advocat is their boss fs

 

Unfortunately managers dont have a say in how much is bid for a player.