UCL Last 16: Celtic v Juventus Chat

Thanks. You put it better than me. Hopefully everybody claiming Hooper was gaining an unfair advantage understands now.

 

No it's not what he was trying to do. See the messages above. Buffon wasn't moving yet, so he didn't have a movement path. Of course we all know where he is likely to want to go when he does move, but there's nothing in the rules about that.

 

That's why it's a clever tactic, but it's not against the rules (see above).

Er, no he didn't.

If it happened a few times a penalty would be harsh. All defences do this occasionally. For it to happen routinely on every single cross deserves a penalty. A good precedent was the 2001 game where the referee warned the Juve players to stop doing it, the carried on doing it, he gave a penalty, it stopped.

 

Except there is, I quoted it a few posts before yours. It even explicitly gives the example of a corner kick where the attacker is restricting the keeper's movement. Buffon doesn't have to rush out and bump into Hooper for it to be a foul. The fact that Hooper, by 'marking' Buffon is impeding his movement is an offence, regardless of whether Buffon is rushing forward or not. You may not agree with it, and it may not always be implemented correctly, but that's the rule.

 

I already explained this. Your quote:

Buffon is not moving yet, so he doesn't have a path. Only moving objects (or people) have a path.

 

No, I'm referring to this: "it is an offence to restrict the movement of a goalkeeper by unfairly impeding him e.g. at the taking of a corner kick". The goalkeeper doesn't need to have a movement path, because it's clear what the goalkeeper's movement path is going to be, unlike in terms of outfield players.

I was using the other quote (the one you are referring to) to illustrate that a player doesn't have to be in possession of the ball for it to be obstruction, because somebody was arguing that it can't be obstruction if Buffon doesn't have the ball.

 

What absolute bullshit.
If the referee wasn't from your allies in Spain and had the guts to award us at least 3 penalties because of your cheating * players we would have beaten you.
You can't expect anything else from a team that were bust and cheated their way back into football and from a country that had Berlusconi as their leader. Not only that, you had someone playing in your team, a player who had a 10 month ban for match fixing. If he had been in Scotland he would have been banned for life, well, except if he played for oldco/sevco, but, instead he played in the CL.
Typical bunch of * cheats.

 

Yeah mate, Spain and Italy are real allies in football They're both vaguely similar-looking, so they must be allies, right?

And which of our players had a 10 month ban for match fixing? This is news to me, please enlighten me.

Also - when did Juve go bust? Another slice of football history that I must have mysteriously missed.

 

You're embarassing yourself here.

 

All this talk about about the referee is getting a bit annoying and it gives the impression we are sour losers. The main thing I am frustrated about is that an expensive outfit as Juventus had to resort to such cynical football in order to beat a relatively cheap team.

We had plenty of chances of getting a goal and were very unlucky (attacking and defending).

 

Got it slightly wrong. It wasn't a player in match fixing it was your manager who was in match fixing scandal.


The only thing Lennon did wrong with regards to the match was play Ambrose.
He should have been dropped.
If Celtic play the same way against your team but this time with Samaras in the team and Ambrose fully rested you will be beaten. Well, as long as there is a different referee.

 

I'm not normally a sore loser, but I feel quite bitter about this and I do think the referee strongly influenced the game. Perhaps we might not have won (I think we would have, but who can tell?), but I'm * sure that ridiculous score of 3-0 wouldn't haver happened and the tie would still be alive. Buendia is arguing that Hooper was breaking the rules by marking the goalkeeper. Naturally I disagree with him.

 

That's an awfully nebulous phrase to be a quote from the rule book, but I'll take your word for it. Well he isn't unfairly impeding the goalkeeper, though, is he? There's no obstruction (which I hope we've already established), so in what way is occupying a space unfairly impeding the goalkeeper?

 

Fair play to you.

 

Yep. There were some anti-Italian comments on this thread which were disgraceful, inexcusable and frankly both mindless and worrying. There is never any call or justification for chauvinistic or xenophobic insults, not in the heat of the moment, not ever.

I condemn anti-Italian statements, even kneejerk comments, from Celtic supporters as much as I would racism from any other quarter.

 

Genuinely think you are the only other person on this forum who has noticed them. There has been a few instances even before the match and in other threads.

Glad to hear it. It's a form of accepted racism amongst some in my experience.

 

It's on page 117 of this document, under the section about offences committed against goalkeepers: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/footballdevelopment/refereeing/81/42/36/lawsofthegame_2012_e.pdf

I'm not sure I understand your question - isn't impeding the goalkeeper in itself unfair? Is there a fair way of impeding the goalkeeper?

I know nobody here is going to really agree with me, but I appreciate the responses of those of you (most people on here, really) who are fair-minded and respectful, so I don't want to annoy everyone by harping on about it. I'm just trying to point out why in my view (and in the view of Italian football culture) what Hooper was doing was a form of cheating. I'm not saying he's a cheater, because I understand that it's accepted in British football, but I insist that according to the law it's a foul on Buffon.

It's clearly a cultural thing - I was listening to Italian sports radio right after the match and they were completely surprised when they picked up on Lennon's post-match comments about how Celtic should have had a couple of penalties. It actually took them the best part of five minutes to realise that he was referring to the Lichsteiner-Hooper situation.

 

Sadly.

It's one thing to say Juve are cheats on the basis of that match (they were) but it's quite another to take it so far as to start slinging stereotypes about greasy, pizza-twirling, spaghetti-munching, racist match-fixing "Luigis" about.

There would be an uproar - and rightly so - if Juve fans came on here making xenophobic insults about Scotland, Ireland, "Jocks" and "Paddies".

We are, or should be, better than that. And we should pull our own ones up on it whenever we see it.

 

Question, Buffon is impeding Hoopers way to the goal in this situation. As is Liechstiener and others at times.

As well as grabbing, grappling, shirt tugging and pushing.

Firstly, what's the difference and secondly do you find the defending acceptable?