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STEVEN CRAVEN CSC

Discussion in 'Celtic Chat' started by CfC jack CfC, Oct 30, 2010.

Discuss STEVEN CRAVEN CSC in the Celtic Chat area at TalkCeltic.net.

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IrishHooper

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Donal-ctn said: ↑

Anyone else just see stuart gougals interveiw on SSN? his parting words were "lets put it to bed move on and let the refs make their wee mistakes"

What a *.
Click to expand...

Well, do you blame him? Sure, the Evening Times has Lennon saying stick with Scottish refs.

IrishHooper, Nov 1, 2010

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IrishHooper

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Eveninng Times article: subtext, c'mon lads, just move on, eh? * off.

No time like the present for Celtic to clock on and forget past... - Evening Times | Sport | Editor's Picks

IrishHooper, Nov 1, 2010

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Not at all surprised that Craven is now being blamed. Think i mentioned it earlier in this post that things would get difficult for him.Give it time and he'll be out of his day job too no doubt. The sfa and "associates" are not run of the mill people to deal with. They can make or break a person. I knew they would tarnish Cravens name in retaliation.

Dallas and McDonald will be safe with their jobs. Dallas is known as one of the untouchables at hampden.I didnt know Dougie had joined that club tobviously blatantly lying to us has paid off for him

Things need changing but the powers that be will never do a thing. There are lots of benefits that come with helping certain clubs out. Refs etc will never speak of the "meetings" at certain supporters clubs or the events they are guest speakers at. I wonder why. They are not getting back handers in cash as such but they are certainly profiting from the generous benefits for being part of the "establishment". Seen that part of football with my own eyes so if any ref or high ranger....sorry high ranker at hampden wanted to debate that i'd hold my own in that respect.

It'll take something drastic to get rid of Dallas.He won't go without a fight.He was well known at hampden for boasting how his ref's kit was teflon coated as no matter what * was thrown at him it'd never stick. It seems he's getting his suits made of the same stuff then.
djw1967, Nov 1, 2010

#303

doctor venglos

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An interesting post on CQN today.

Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
1 November, 2010 at 12:32
Good Morning,

Over the past week I have advocated a policy of simply listening to what all the players in the Dougiegate saga had to say as that is simply the best evidence of any cover up or inconsistency or attitude which is reprehensible.

Yesterday, Dougie McDonald brought his refereeing career to an end with his own words.

There is no need to compare what he said to the word of Steven Craven you just have to look at what he himself said. I would also suggest that this morning, the position of Assistant referee Charlie Smith is also untenable as he has now confirmed his position and understanding.

We are as yet to hear from Hugh Dallas, but unfortunately for him,both McDonald and Cryans have squarely thrown the noose around his neck and left it for him to jump or be pushed from the scaffold platform.

Referees are servants to the game of football. They do not serve one team or another. They do not serve the press or public opinion and they do not serve their own self interest. They are entrusted to administer the laws of the game during 90 plus minutes of football and to be accountable for the decisions made during those 90 minutes to all and anyone who has an interest.

Of key imporatnace in fulfilling that role– above knowledge of the rules of the game, above the ability to see who did what and how that fits in with the laws of the game– is honesty, integrity and impartiality. Those three MUST be on display at all times, and must be shown to players, managers and even officials from your own and other associations including the Scottish Premier League, EUFA,FIFA and so on.

For many years, there has been a feeling that the SFA believe that they can do and say what they want with no concern for the attitude of others and with unbelievable arrogance. The common feeling is that they are simply “Untouchable”.

Yesterday, Mr McDonald, far more then Steven Craven, revealed that mindset to be true.

Look at what he says– and let’s once again take what he says at face value and believe for a moment ( although it is highly doubtful) ) that it is the truth. Remember that this is one of the men from whom Willie Collum sought advice from before the Celtic v Rangers game according to the SFA website and with their blessing.

I am not interested in the penalty incident at all– so let’s start at the end of the game.

Mr McDonald says that as he left the field of play with Steven Craven, he met Charlie Smith at the door and that Craven then pulled the earpices out ( presumably Smith’s as well ) and asked " What are we going to tell Jim McBurney?"

Stop and think about that. An assistant goes to one of our senior referees and asks that question? Should Steven Craven’s career not have ended there and then if that is the case? Surely the automatic reaction of Mr McDonald should have been " What are you talking about? What do you mean?" Surely an assistant would never even contemplate deceiving an observer— unless he knew that the senior official would not take umbrage?

But No!

Not only was Dougie McDonald not surprised by the question– he had an immediate answer that shows his mindset and the arrogance with which he officiates and reports to the SFA. It reveals what he believes is his immediate response to accounatbility.

" I don’t care what we tell Jim McBurney– tell him anything— tell him you shouted Dougie Dougie…." and so on.

So basically we have an assistant who was obviously thinking about what excuses could be made to the observer, and who was not afraid to raise the subject with one of our “Top” referees. That referee instead of chastising his more junior colleague revealed that he didn’t care what was said– anything would do— and he then had a ready made set of facts ( falsehoods ) to advance to the observer. Presumably he had enough time to think about what to make up. We also have another assistant, who was privy to all of this, present when it happened and who this morning has the stupidity and arrogance to come forward and confirm the McDonald version of events as if it doesn’t really have anything to do with him. He stays silent– the quiet man– the man who could have spoken up and brought sanity and honesty back to a crazy situation and who could have stopped a bad situation getting worse– but he said nothing.

Charlie Smith– the footballing equivalent of Judas.

None of these people have futures in the game. Partly because of the lack of integrity and honesty, but also because they have the arrogance and mind set to even consider fabricating a story that meets their needs before the needs of football administration. There is no need to concern ourselves with who was right between Craven and McDonald– they were all wrong. Their interest was — our reputation first– football second!

However, let’s not gloss on by the other salient points and inconsistencies highlighted by Dougie. let’s tackle the white lie on the spur of the moment myth.

That myth dissolved inn the Tannadice bath water.

Clearly the “Dougie Dougie” story was hatched as he left the field of play or shortly thereafter. It was discussed prior to the match observer coming in, and repeated when that observer came in and asked to be talked through the penalty incident. There would be a gap in time there. A sufficient gap to stop and reflect-and correct a lie which had been agreed upon but not yet acted upon.

” I don’t care what we tell Jim McBurney”— oh yes you did Mr McDonald– you cared enough to stop, think about it, come up with the story, rehearse it in your head and have it off pat when the man you were accountable to came knocking.

Further, 40MINUTES later– 40 MINUTES– nearly three quarters of an hour– or half a football match– you deliberately,calculatedly and without concern repeated the same version of events to Neil Lennon from the comfort of the bath it would appear.

Again no word from Judas Charlie, nor anything but support for the Story from Steven Craven.

How arrogant is that? How untouchable and free from accountability must you feel if you are able to peddle untruths at an admittedly polite, calm and unpressurising Lennon?

It is not until much later that pangs of conscience somehow creep in to the liars Psychy that you feel the urge to come clean to Mr Dallas and for that we are meant to be thankful. So in timelines, it means that it has taken between perhaps 1-2 hours before you have realised that you have made a”Dishonest Mistake”.

Yet this is the same man who “Immediately recognised” he had made a mistake with the penalty and immediately sought to correct it?

No one can have faith in this man’s judgement to react properly or honsetly under pressure. How would we ever know that he will not come up with a story that fits the facts as he wants to portray them– only to have his conscience pumpkined by feelings of guilt once he is in his car later? He cannot referee again.

Then we come to his explanation to Hugh Dallas. No need to renew that confession. No need to compare how he describes the attitude of Dallas to the version of events given by Steven Craven. Let’s take Dougie’s evangelistic words as Gospel.

Mr McDonald says he was told to call Steven Craven by Hugh Dallas. The reason? So that Dougie McDonald could tell Craven that the truth would have to be told in the media the next day.

I have two problems about that.

The first is that a superior– a superviser—having had a report of dishonesty made to him– does not allow the person who has perpetrated that dishonesty to call a fellow colleague in that dishonesty to tell him what has to happen next. A superviser, acting properly, takes charge of the situation, investigates the position himself and reports back to his employers about what should be done re the transgressing colleagues.

Oh– and the first thought should be for the integrity of the association– not the media, or how the whole thing looks or comes over. Integrity has to be the number one priority.

So why then does Hugh Dallas personally continue with the fabricated "Dougie Dougie" story on national radio more than 24 hours after being told that it was all a lie? That is just about the most astonishing thing in this whole scenario. What purpose does that serve? More importantly– WHO does that serve?

Why does he not report the whole matter to Mr Regan and instigate a proper enquiry like a good superviser should? That is the sensible and proper thing to do.

The eventual enquiry, however, is not undertaken by Regan until he receives a 4 page letter of resignation from Craven. It does not take 4 pages to resign, and no enquiry ever followed someone simply saying I want to leave. It is that 4 pages, and the allegations contained within them, that sparks Regan into action—- but it should have been Hugh Dallas, acting properly, who should have initiated that. We can only speculate at this time why he did not take that action.

In all of this, it can be seen that there exists within the highest grades of Scottish refereeing an attitude of "It doesn’t matter what we tell them– tell them anything".

It can be discussed openly, without fear of reprimand or being reported to the proper SFA officials. No one in refereeing circles– not the senior matchday official, not his assistants, not the Observer, not the refreeing superviser, not the disciplainary committee made up of ex referees— feels the need to provide full and frank explanations of anything. Tell them anything it doesn’t matter.

You can lie, stay silent, repeat the lie, twist the lie– it doesn’t matter– tell them anything as long as it suits the referees purpose.

Further, it is said (by some) that Steven Craven resigned because of threatening phone calls. Well who from? You will note that Mr McDonald was not asked about the allegations of Bullying from Dallas or his assistant. Nor did he volunteer anything on that front.

The more any of these people say, the more they bring their own careers to an end.

You will aslo note that apologies and explanations are given only to those who can decide on the future of his job– committees,Dallas, Regan etc– but none to either Dundee United or Celtic– none to Neil lennon. It would appear that you have to be asked by a Journalist before any of them come into Mr McDonald’s reckoning.

It is also noteable that two people are explicitly praised for theur decorum and demenaor. They are a Mr Shaun Maloney as captain of Celtic, and Mr Neil Lennon as manager of Celtic. Both polite, both professional, both dignified
Click to expand...

doctor venglos, Nov 1, 2010

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OverandOver

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Guilty | The Sun |Home Scotland|Scottish Sport|Columnists|Bill Leckie Sports

Excellent article on the whole thing.

OverandOver, Nov 1, 2010

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* THEM.

Aidzo 09, Nov 1, 2010

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Twisty . Gold Member

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OverandOver said: ↑

Guilty | The Sun |Home Scotland|Scottish Sport|Columnists|Bill Leckie Sports

Excellent article on the whole thing.
Click to expand...

well said

for a change

Twisty, Nov 1, 2010

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Scarecrow

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great article by bill leckie there.

Scarecrow, Nov 1, 2010

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PaulM1888 Moderator Moderator

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IrishHooper said: ↑

Well, do you blame him? Sure, the Evening Times has Lennon saying stick with Scottish refs.
Click to expand...

What are you wanting from Lennon and the Celtic board? It's clear you have a wee agenda going on by your 'dog with a bone' attitude about this.

If you think anyone is going to take the * out of Reid, Lawwell and Lennon you'd be mistaken. The fact these lies and betrayals have been outed under the stewardship of those 3 speaks volumes of the way they conduct themselves.

PaulM1888, Nov 1, 2010

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djw1967

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OverandOver said: ↑

Guilty | The Sun |Home Scotland|Scottish Sport|Columnists|Bill Leckie Sports

Excellent article on the whole thing.
Click to expand...

I feel ashamed to say this but....i agree with Bill Leckie. Now there is something i thought i'd never say.

djw1967, Nov 1, 2010

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Scarecrow

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BBC Sport - Football - Referee McDonald says he did not initiate 'white lie'

more bullshit, i as a referee know that the assistaint referee was going to take up his position for the penalty, so all this about lies is more and more bull * * from this dirty corrupt *.

Scarecrow, Nov 1, 2010

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alsybhoy

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ya liiar dougie ya rat sack

alsybhoy, Nov 1, 2010

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IrishHooper

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I see Harry Redknapp is showing Celtic what a set of balls is for.

IrishHooper, Nov 1, 2010

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Makes me laugh Kenny Clark Saying this will take Years to repair the damage that has been done ....ffs im sorry but its took years of Lying , Cheating and blatent * of Celtic fc to get to this so i really dont care now ....All we want is a fair crack of the whip ..For years we have had games robbed away from us by dodgy decisions ....time for this to end NOW

LB, Nov 1, 2010

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thailandceltic From Immigration to Domination

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"oh why did you do it,
have you not the guts to say?
you say it was the linesman fault
but not the SFA,
but like Farry and Dallas
your lies are well renowned,
you've cheated Glasgow Celtic
in every football ground"

thailandceltic, Nov 1, 2010

#315
kieranc

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thailandceltic said: ↑

"oh why did you do it,
have you not the guts to say?
you say it was the linesman fault
but not the SFA,
but like Farry and Hugh Dallas
your lies are well renowned,
you've cheated Glasgow Celtic
in every football ground"
Click to expand...

kieranc, Nov 1, 2010

#316
djw1967

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thailandceltic said: ↑

"oh why did you do it,
have you not the guts to say?
you say it was the linesman fault
but not the SFA,
but like Farry and Dallas
your lies are well renowned,
you've cheated Glasgow Celtic
in every football ground"
Click to expand...

djw1967, Nov 1, 2010

#317
alsybhoy

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thailandceltic said: ↑

"oh why did you do it,
have you not the guts to say?
you say it was the linesman fault
but not the SFA,
but like Farry and Dallas
your lies are well renowned,
you've cheated Glasgow Celtic
in every football ground"
Click to expand...

heee heeee good stuff man

alsybhoy, Nov 1, 2010

#318
Todriguez

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i really hope not but i think the Hun media and the SFA will manipulate this back on craven unfortunately , It'll be swept under the carpet and no one will walk or be pushed. grandmaster dougie will just no ref a game at parkhead for a while and hugh and the SFA will still be cheating *

Todriguez, Nov 1, 2010

#319
TheMaestro8

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Hugh Dallas just released a statement as we speak

"completely unsubstantiated allegations .... I refute categorically any claims"

Regan

"Scottish FA is unequivocal in its support of Hugh Dallas"

TheMaestro8, Nov 1, 2010

#320

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