Nicolas Kuhn

Based on nothing but my gut I'd say a player in those kinda league, with that kinda experience, running out a contract would probably go for £4-6M in the current market, unless there's rival bidding...

 

When he's got 6 months left he won't be a penny over 2 and a half million

 

Of course! I think those of us who are for him coming are definitely taking that into consideration. The guy apparently glides past men for fun. That’s precisely what we need for getting balls in behind the low block.

 

Kuhn is contracted until 2026, it's Grüll that I mentioned that's only got 6 months left just incase of confusion.

But I'd pay 2.5 for Grüll, Kuhn looks alright but if it was a choice I know who I'd pick

 

17 games through a 32 game Bundesliga season. The lads played 16 of those 17 - and that’s not ‘established’ at his club? Right ye are…

You mean like Jota - who, as with Kühn - appeared to fail to make it within the corporate machinations of a large club’s youth system? Difference here is that Jota’s loan to Valladolid wasn’t as successful as Kühn’s has been to Rapid.

Additionally, Kühn made over 105 league appearances before joining Rapid at the age of 22. Yes, those were all in the lower divisions, but in much better footballing countries than either Austria or Scotland.

Preferring more experience is fine, but don’t manipulate the picture to make it look like this guy’s a Nat Phillips type with barely any game time in him.

With respect, James, if anyone could do with ‘getting out of’ a certain way of thinking, it’s you with your often condescending tone. I don’t need teaching just because I disagree with you. I wasn’t remotely suggesting every signing should be a diamond in the rough.

 

Think Rodgers definitely wants a left footed winger, would take both but would say left footed right winger is higher on the priority list.

 

Yes - this is what I meant. I'm not against these types of signings but we've made many recently and I think that's a problem.

As a side note, I've tried not to mention spend tbh. Money is part of the problem but I think it's strategy that's more the issue. Like every Celtic fan, I respect how powerful the 'prospect' strategy has been (See Jota comparison targetted at me ), but it's clearly went too far in the last window.

I've mentioned Starfelt, Juranovic, Giakoumakis and Kyogo in recent threads. Two of them cost a bit more but none of them broke the bank and certainly not unaffordable for us.

Kuhn fits the strategy, which is generally fine but we need to make sure we're being balanced with our signings. We haven't been since Ange first joined.

I meant he's not established as a footballer since it's his first real season performing at a decent level.

That being said..

It's not a point I would choose argue, but since you mention it, I think it's a shoogly peg to say he's established at his club. It looks like he's in a breakthrough season which is great but I've seen plenty of players fall away. It's like saying Liam Scales is established at Celtic. Maybe it's a terminology thing but when I say established at Celtic I mean Carter-Vickers, MOR, Kyogo - guys with seasons of consistent form.

AJ was excellent for 16 games last season, now people want a new RB signed.

You're reply here was to this quote from me:

"Like others are saying, I don’t think it’s necessarily a terrible signing, but in the context of who we’ve signed recently for the wings I think a more experienced player would be better."

So I've literally said I don't think it will necessarily be a terrible signing. With regard to recent signings, we signed two players to play this position in the summer and already had Abada, Maeda, James Forrest and arguably MJ.

To me, the two players we signed might come good but they're clearly on the more inexperienced / less established side. I think it's clear what I meant. I would for someone around 26-29 with 3 or 4 decent seasons behind them. The Jota argument is a strawman. I've never at any time said less established younger players can't be excellent, including Kuhn.

And I haven't manipulated anything.

"Not every signing has to be a diamond in the rough. We need to get out of this way of thinking."

With respect, Martin, you need to calm down. I said, "we need to get out of this way of thinking" which means the entire club and support - and I say that because we've signed a series of players in the last couple of windows that fit the same profile. Young, cheap, one or two decent seasons at a much smaller club in a small-ish league.

If I was trying to 'teach' you, I would say, "You need to get out of this way of thinking".

 

I like the sound of Grüll too, but we definitely need someone left-footed, and I think Kühn could well fit the bill. Signing players in-form has worked for us in the past as well.

 

I'm not really going to get involved in this but Kuhn has only played 60 games for a main team(51 Rapid, 7 Ajax and 3 Leipzig). He played 105 times for Ajax II and Bayern II. They're youth games but filtered into the lower leagues of their respective countries to progress youths in the system. They can count but when you're comparing him with Nat Phillips, you would also have to filter in youth games and Premier League 2 games for Phillips.

Phillips has played more games at a far higher level than Kuhn. He's also only 2 years older. Will Kuhn have more games when he turns 26? More than likely but it doesn't change the fact that the last season and a half has pretty much been the first time in his career where he's been playing top tier football continuously.

 

I think it’s just a bit of a cheap comparison to liken him to a Yang or Tilio. Neither were on-form in a solid European league at the time. The point re Jota was not ‘targeted’ at you; it was directly in reply to a point you had made. I’m as sick of ‘projects’ as anyone, but I genuinely think there’s more to go on with Kühn - certainly he’s very demonstrably more experienced/proven than a Tilio.

Of course we should go for more experience - just about the entire fan base thinks that and, I repeat, doesn’t need told it. But that doesn’t preclude going for what would appear to be a genuine quality player who just hasn’t had the break yet.

Again, in that way, I think Jota is a better comparison, but I actually see this as less of a risk, given that he’s currently on-form in a good league, and wouldn’t cost £6m (I presume, based on what’s been said previously).

 

Apples and oranges between Prem 2 and Bundesliga 2. mate. As you probably well know, Bund. 2. is their Championship, whereas Prem 2 is a reserve league, so only Phillips’ appearances in actual competitive football should count.

 

I actually didn't realise he played in the 2. Budesliga with Erzgebrighe for a season.

For what it's worth, Phillips also played in the 2. Bundesliga for Stuttgart and helped them get promoted back to the Bundesliga.

 

I'm not directly comparing him to Tilio. You're picking this up wrong.

We've signed a bunch of players on the less-experienced side of things, of which Tilio is one and Yang is another (for this same position, no less).

I'm not disputing Kuhn is more experienced than them, or less risky. I'm saying I would buy someone more experienced than Kuhn in general. There's a subtle difference.

I suspect we will not sign another two right-wingers in this window, given we signed two in the summer and still have MJ, Maeda, Abada and Forrest for this position.

So signing Kuhn may very well preclude signing the 'more experience' the entire fan base thinks we should sign.

Which is the crux of my point (and a few others I believe) about 'context of our recent signings'..

But what relevance is the comparison? Jota was good, so Kuhn will be good?

Of course I know Kuhn could be excellent. I'm not sitting here saying we're pulling him out of high school.

Fundamentally, all I am saying is I'm looking at Kuhn experience and saying right now I would sign someone more established even though I think Kuhn looks decent.

If they want to sign someone more experience and Kuhn, I would be all for signing him.

For the record, I'm not saying I'm handing in my season ticket if they sign Kuhn, it's just an opinion that we should target someone more experienced right now and I think there's a strategic choice not to target players like that which has went too far.

I completely disagree. It's a discussion forum and my opinion is my club and my fellow supporters have gone too far into a specific strategy, so I'll say I think we need to get out of this way of thinking, regardless if someone thinks it's personally condescending.

We signed 7 players under 23 in the summer when we needed 3 or 4 established bits of quality, with plenty (not all) of the supporters going along with it, as they are entitled to do.

I repeat (with an IMO for politeness?):

In my opinion, we need to get out of this way of thinking.

 

Just checked to see if Ive seen him play. He played against us at RB Salzburg and was hooked after 56 minutes. Then I check his other games, and it doesnt seem hes played a full 90 minutes getting hooked usually after about the 70th plus minutes.

 

To be fair, we need to get guys just as they’re clicking or ready to kick on and get into full speed.

Ones that will proper improve us, if we wait a few seasons, will be out our reach.