Name one sectarian song our fans sing?

OK where was sectarian legally defined as only referring to religious bigotry?

 

By your standards Gunt The Flower Of Scotland, * Save The Queen, La Marseillaise and Amhrán na bhFiann. Are all sectarian.

 

Why dont you all just stop Singing song with the IRA in them, we are better than that, just sing Celtic songs, IRA has nothing to do with Celtic.

 

Singing about the IRA is not stooping to their level,the sooner people like you stop trying to pretend it is the better.

 

Well I bow to reading it in the Glasgow Herald about a case that had came up about someone singing rebel songs and the difference about religious songs and Paul McBride had a comment on it which was about 3 or 4 weeks ago, cant give you the exact day, and it was put right down, nothing was sung about anti religious in the song and was thrown out, nuff said

 

We don't and never ever will.

 

What a offensive post.

 

There has never been a case about any Celtic fan charged about singing sectarian songs, but we have all had the * breach of the peace, but they can do it legally every day of the week if they * want

 

From the Nil By Mouth website...

"Sectarian Crime – In 2003 sectarianism became what is commonly known as a ‘hate crime’ under Scottish law. Anyone who commits an offence such as an assault, murder, or breach of the peace is likely to be given a stiffer sentence if the act was motivated by religious hatred – just as it would be with racial hatred."

http://nilbymouth.org/a-brighter-future/

and here's the legal interperation of that...

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/155706/0041794.pdf

 

At the end of the day, one Great Clubs fans sing about Irish history. Another * Clubs fans sing eveything bigoted and racist, anti-Irish and anti-catholic songs involving everything from famine to rosary beads.

Only one group is in the wrong.

 

So, is there definate legal prescident that sectarianism=religious bigotry in Scots law?

I think anyway that regardless of legal definitions etc, the divide between republican and loyalist subcultures in Scotland and Ireland is focussed as much on politics/history/nationalism as it is on religion and anyone who wants to tackle antagonistic expression of this divide in football will need to tackle all aspects of it. I think most people who understand the same divide in northern Ireland agree that it is now mostly a divide based on politics and historical identity that looks like it will outlive religion.

It is closely bound up but I think to only tackle the expression of the religious aspect of the divide is pointless. The real hate seems to stem from very opposed and very antagonistic views on Britain's relationship with Ireland and sides their ancestors found themselves on. There is no problem with people having views on these things but I think football grounds, particularly away grounds i Scotland is a very bad place to express sides in this division whether they are religious, political or historical. Its just generates far too much hatred.

Whoever tackles it would maybe be best to use a range of terms including sectarianism, inflamitory etc rather then just one term.

 

we do not sing any sectarian songs as far as i know but that does not mean we do not sing songs that are "wrong"

 

We don't sing any songs that are "wrong".

Only in Britain could singing about Irish patriots be seen as wrong. Its just racist to be honest.

 

exactly. It's anti-Irishness that is being proposed, not anti-sectarianism.

If they're serious about stopping religious hatred, stop the marches. But they won't.

 

This is the crux of the matter - if you are serious about eliminating sectarianism in this backwater of a country then ban the anti-Catholic, orange vermin from marching on our streets.

 

But you cant just make up laws to say something is offensive.

Anyone could claim anything is offensive, I could ask the police to arrest someone for wearing a yellow t-shirt because I find it offensive.

Rangers have about 5 songs that are illegal they should be banned or they should be punished for singing them and then we can all get along fine.... although there will still be a big rivalry but where isnt there in football!

 

Only had time to skim that but the actual law is about religious hatred and its being a hate crime. It doesnt use the word sectarian. Its only nil by mouth's piece that equates the word sectarian with religious hatred as a hate crime. All those links seem to do is discuss religious hatred, not sectarianism. To be honest I would be astonished if anyone legally restricted sectarianism to just meaning religious hatred because world wide it is understood to cover a wider scope than just religion.

It is also true that very very frequently history means that religion and politics tend to a large degree to combine and divide the population into religious-political-ethnic identity blocks. To separate the religious part of these often violent divisions is very artificial. Its only part of the problem and its is only part (IMO the lesser part) of the real hate these clashing views creates. IMO we as a society have tolerated the playing out of this hate-generating divide too long. I would have zero tolerance/immediate point deduction for all songs and symbols that are clearly dabbling in this dangerous divide be they religious. nationalistic, political or historical.

 

No offence to Gunt,he argues a great case,but if it isn't him,it's Marty,or the other couple,this is * tiresome,and we wouldn't be having this argument if it wasn't for that deadman that attacked Lenny.It's the PIRA chant in particular that kicked this bullshit off,and chants like that haven't been heard for a long time,and I doubt it will be heard for much longer,if ever.It was a night of high emotions and I think all this little debate does is detract from the real * issues our club is being faced with.

 

Its context and intent rather than the song itself that would define it as an issue. Sung in a certain environment a song that is innocent elsewhere could easily be argued to be deliberately antagonistic and designed to stir up old divisions of a much more serious nature than normal silly football banter. Any ira or loyalist songs sung in a west-central Scottish environment is a demonstration of people having a selfish disregard for sensitivities and I think that is a lot of the fun for people who do it. I certainly think it is an open-shut case in terms of the paramilitaries. I have heard that singing about present or former illegal organisations in the UK is covered by law but I dont know the details.

 

I just find it sad that the IRA are continued to be mentioned in the same breathe as my football club. I'm sure the vast majority of you are aswell.