Ki

They don't call him Super Joe for nothing

 

I still have to disagree - I just looked at it on Youtube a few times and it's a good pass, no doubt but I still think Ki's was better.

 

defense splitting passes? is Kayal prone to doing that?

I remember the was one against hearts i think it was, i sure he played it across the ground from around the center circle through the defense and found hooper.

i think what is good about our midfield is that most of them can play those passes when required but the downfall is that they maybe still need to develop a better vision when it we are get 10 defenders

 

Then we agree to disagree

 

Tbh, both the pass from Ledley and the pass from Ki aren't really the type that we need.

9 times out of 10 we are playing against 2 banks for 4 sat extremely deep. What's needed for that are quick one-twos, passing triangles etc. I imagine as our team blends more we'll get better at them I suppose.

 

Triangles and one twos will work, but we also need Messi-esque wee balls chipped in over the defence for hooper to run onto, we don't do this enough or try it, they will never be able to do it with the consistency of Messi but its something different.

When we play against packed defences, SPL or Europe with any of our players we as a team are very predictable and easy to play against, hopefully wee ibrahim and commons in the hole can provide us with that creativity through the middle.

 

i think the predictability comes from the rigidness in our formation the footie on show last season with Commons, Hooper and Stokes leading attack was superb.

if we could bring that back in while trying to keep a tight defense it would be the way to go. I can't argue with a team and tactics that won us the league but the CM could be a bit more probing and run at players

 

Yesterday, more long range shots or accurate set pieces were needed. So Ki would've been quite useful.

 

Accurate set pieces? I can't remember the last good cross Ki delivered, be it corner or free kick. He hasn't scored from a free kick in quite some time as well. His long - range shooting is overrated too, has only scored a couple this season.

 

I don't recall him ever scoring a free-kick. It is a complete myth that he is some sort of set-piece expert. Mulgrew, Commons and Stokes are all better at set-pieces than him

 

thing about his long range shooting is not overrated he can shoot and i'd say Mulgrew is equally adept at long ranger shooting, only thing is the tactics we play whether it is lenny telling them not to i don't know.

it's just like Crosas that guy had such a * shot on him from distance but our style of play didn't really allow such abilities to be used that much

 

You must separate getting a good cross in, from the player actually scoring the header. Ki can do the first, but our players don't always use the opportunity. Ki's free kicks are generally very good, as they are more consistently on target. Stokes either misses, or sometimes scores. Ki forces a save very often.

 

Exactly. Ki never scores free-kicks. It's all well and good hitting the target, but I would rather have someone who can actually score them taking them, i.e Stokes, Mulgrew etc.

 

Stokes misses loads more than he scores though.

 

Disagree with that, I think his crossing isn't good, especially from corners when ball ends up at first post most of the time.

 

Strange how the strikers seem good enough to score a lot of goals from Mulgrew and Common's deliveries yet suddenly can't score the wonderful crosses by Ki...

 

True but Ki has taken more far more free kicks for us than Stokes and never scored one. I think I'll let Stokes have his one in three rate or whatever it is rather than Ki's none in a hundred.

 

This. Whatever way you look at it, Stokes has a better record than Ki from freekicks

 

You forget the goal scored by Mulgrew from a Ki corner kick when we won the league against Killie, or do moments like that just pass you by. Lets try to be even in our assessments.

 

I try not to go into this thread too much because some of the stuff levelled at Ki is pretty silly.

So just to clear up another inconsistency - Stokes takes FAR more free-kicks than Ki and that's why Ki's hardly scored any. The kicker list goes something like Mulgrew>Stokes>Commons>Ki and considering the amount of matches Mulgrew has played in this season (has missed about 7-8 of 53 matches) then this generally means it's Mulgrew and Stokes hitting free-kicks.

Personally, I think Ki is underrated with free-kicks, but the team/manager has decided the pecking order and I'm content with that.

Second point - deliveries from indirect free-kicks and corners. I actually think Ki is very good with his corners - you only need to look as far back as the "Championship winning" match - the 6-0 against Killie to see an example of that for the winning, opening goal (Ki corner).

and just to reiterate something that I've said earlier in the thread (conveniently ignored by some really blinkered people!)

Ki has the best assists per game and the best goals per game out of any of our central midfielders. That includes Ledley, Brown, Wanyama, Kayal (and actually a better record than Forrest). And this is while generally not getting a large, continuous run of matches. I wouldn't underestimate how important a good run of games in the same position is.

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Contrary to what I've just said, the goals/assists tally isn't a real part of Ki's game to be concentrating on. He's meant to be deployed more deep lying dictating the tempo of the match (which many describe incorrectly as "slowing the game down inappropriately")

His assists is comparable (respective to the leagues) to Luka Modric and Frank Lampard - because these aren't David Silva type midfielders who play behind the striker. These are normal, sitting midfielders who dictate play and correctly get plenty plaudits if not assists.

His biggest asset (and problem in eyes of the supporters) is that he's not Kayal or Brown running around kicking things. He has an eye for a pass, putting the right people into the right places. Extremely underrated in this respect and it pains me to see such a technically gifted player consistently battered of this thread.