I know it's easy to point the finger in the current circumstances at the board and Peter Lawwell, and even at the new manager according to some, but exactly how accountable should John Park be to what's going on now?
He arrived at Celtic Park back in January of 2007 from Hibernian, having overseen a youth system that saw the likes of Garry O'Connor, Kenny Miller, Kevin Thomson, Derek Riordan and Scott Brown come through.
Him and his team were responsible for the likes of Ki, Gary Hooper, Beram Kayal, Emilio Izaguirre, Fraser Forster, Tony Watt, Kris Commons, Victor Wanyama, Mikael Lustig, Efe Ambrose & Virgil van Dijk.
But they were also responsible for the likes of Marc-Antoine Fortuné, Jos Hooiveld, Efraín Juárez, Mohamed Bangura, Miku, Lassad, Amido Baldé, Derk Boerrigter & Teemu Pukki.
It's fair to say that there hasn't quite been the quality being brought in recently that we've seen in the past.
Last season we spent money on Balde, Boerrigter, Bitton, Pukki, Friðjónsson, Johansen & Griffiths. With the exception of Griffiths on a domestic level at the end of last season none of them really have performed.
The season before saw Ambrose, Forster & Rogic come in for a fee, whilst we got Miku, Ľuboš Kamenár, Lassad, Rami Gershon & Viktor Noring in on loan.
I'm not entirely sure that the scouting team have done too well over the past few years.
Maybe it's time we looked at changing things up in that regard?
Discuss John Park - Does He Carry Much Of The Blame? in the Celtic Chat area at TalkCeltic.net.
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Officer Doofy Come to me, human man Gold Member
Since he's been here, we've had more wrong than right. Some signings have been ridiculous. -
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he should hes seen players celtic are signing that deila hasn't even looked at ulimately he should decide whether he wants him not some scout
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Rossenspeil
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He's one of the highest-ranked scouts in the UK, I think it's harsh to give him any blame.
His job is to unearth hidden gems and find value as we can't compete at the very top end, so there will be always be an element of risk in that market.
Most of the players you mentioned above came with good reputations, bags of potential and were probably paid pretty low wages.
If you pay a player with 'potential' peanuts for a season or two, then let him go, you haven't really lost much have you?
Could be worse, we could have paid £50 million for Torres. -
Even if his track record over the past few years has been spotty at best?
He's not just "some scout", he's a pretty integral part of the management team at the club, right up there with Lawwell and the likes of Collins and so on.
It's his job to create a dossier of players that the manager can choose from as and when he needs to, and that fit the budget we have to operate in.
It's a pretty big task. -
Yes, a lot of credit where its due for the gems he has found, but he is out of form.
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That's what I mean, the finds of recent seasons just don't seem to be of a similar quality to those earlier in his Celtic career.
Maybe someone who knows more about the scouting set-up knows why this is the case? Has he lost any of his team? Anyone new came on board? -
he is a scout though ultimately the manager should decide whether he wants the player or not not some scout. Deila hasn't even seen some of these players are are brought into celtic I don't think thats fair.
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Kiko 7
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No, he doesn't select the lineup or the tactics, in fact he only goes and looks At a player.
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Gyp Rosetti Gold Member
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Spot on for every Wanyama,Hooper or Forster there has been some absolute * dross we have signed -
exactly koki
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Binnie_Bhoy
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He seems to get it wrong more often when they are 'big' signings for us. So players that we shell out few million on. These are the ones we need to be selling on for £10 plus million but it really isn't easy.
He should take some blame though yes, especially in the last 2 seasons. -
Him,the scouts and the manager are due the credit for the wanyama's we have had but they are also to blame for all the Efe's we have had to endure this last season.
Something has gone pete tong and its really * out team with signing so much crap all in the one season.
Thing need to change or people need to get to * and find new jobs. -
Or are the gems costing that bit more money and we are having to settle for even less.
maybe they are finding the players but we don't have the wages they want. -
I disagree with the sentiment that we've had more poor than good signings, the transfer money we have recouped on players signed during the era has has lead the scouting division relative to the amounts we recouped previously is ridiculous.
There is definitely something in the striker department though and it may be simply down to the fact that the amounts we are willing to pay do not buy you proven goalscorers with the stats to back it up. We have signed some amount of sub-standard strikers. -
Yes, but his opinion carries a shitload of weight, doesn't it? That's how football clubs operate these days.
When Deila or Lennon were sitting down to look for someone to fill a certain position it'll come from the dossier of players that have been put together by Park more times than not, unless the manager has a specific target in mind (such as Berget, for example).
Him and his team got a lot of credit for the Wanyama, Hooper, Van Dijk signings, didn't they? They also have to take the criticism when they recommend a player who isn't up to scratch.
And that's happened more often than not of late. -
I would like to see him interviewed on Celtic TV, he's like the mystery man behind the scene.
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I remember Peter Houston talking about how extensive our scouting network was so I assume we have quite a lot of people working for John Park. We all rightly gave him lots of praise when he was finding some outstanding talent so he should certainly take some responsibility for the guys who look like they will never be Celtic quality.
I am pretty sure that Peter Lawell isn't part of the scouting team. -
Mr Shelby Moderator Moderator Gold Member
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I think that has something to do with it but at the same time there have been some striker's with good goalscoring records that have went for well within our budget lately. I don't know how our scouts either did not spot them or either couldn't be arsed recommending them.
Two examples
Philip Hosiner at Vienna - went for £1.8m to Rennes but we could have picked him up months prior for a wee bit more.
Jelle Vossen at Genk - Just signed for Middlesborough onloan, surely to * we could compete with that.
Those are only 2 recent examples. Recently we have brought in striker's with * poor scoring records and who are also coming in with not alot of form behind them e.g. Pukki warmed the Schalke bench and Balde wasn't exactly on fire at Guimares.
We should target striker's who are coming in off the back of a good season, much better chance of hitting the ground running like Stokes and Hooper did. Scepovic might prove my theory right if we signs.
I don't buy into the idea for one second that these player's aren't out there. We fans can see it, it's not as if we are being unrealistic either and just going off the back of football manager.:smiley-laughing002:Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2014 -
Kiko 7
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No because even at that he doesn't have the final say. John Park will not make the decision of spending x amount on someone. All he'll say is "I saw .... Today and he looked a player, here's a video of him".
The managers brain is what wins games. Not the scouts eyes.
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