Israel at it again

What exactly do you see on TV though? Did you see the after effects of 4 years of Hamas and Islamic Jihad rockets raining down on towns in Israel, despite the fact there is NO occupation of Gaza, NO Israeli's in Gaza and NO desire to go back into Gaza.

Does western media report the abuses of human rights Hamas practice on their own people by depriving them of Israeli supplied medicines? Doubt it.

Do they report the fact that Irsaeli doctors treat (for free) Gazans who need specialised treatment, but those same people once recovered express a desire to move to the West Bank as they fear for their lives from Hamas as a result of receiving "zionist indoctrination" from Israelis? Doubt it

Do they report that Hamas will dig a bunker under a civillian house and fill it full of weapons and give the residents no choice in that matter? Doubt it.

Do they report the fact that Christians have been almost completed ethnic cleansed from Gaza by Hamas and all Christian bookshops and study centres have been destroyed? Doubt that also.

And I bet they conveniently forget to report that Israel supplies Gaza with enough food, medicine, fuel and other supplies to give them a very decent standard of living but most of what passes through is commandeered by Hamas then resold to Egyptians at vastly inflated prices.

Media will report what they want to report...works both ways and you know it. The media is one of the most important tools in any war, be it psychological or otherwise.

I have never said Israelis are angels, but the fact remains that no matter how many peace offers are made to Hamas, they find an excuse to start trouble. They poked Israelis with a stick for four years and finally they snapped. What did they really expect? I can assure you also no matter what is said around the world, this will not stop until the complete infrastructure of Hamas is destroyed.

Ask yourself also why the West Bank, under Fatah rule is quiet and peaceful in the main. No rockets fired, Palestinians starting to come back into Israel to work and trade....

Again I'll reiterate this for the benefit for all you on here who like to spout * about land grabs etc etc. Israel has ZERO desire to take Gaza. They do not want to be in Gaza period. There is only ONE Israeli in Gaza, Gilad Schalit and he was kidnapped from Israeli soil by Hamas terrorists.

I have no problem debating with people but at least make your comments informed....otherwise you just come across as nothing more than an empty head!

 

even i found this easy to understand,

if this dosent finish the debate nothing will,,

but no doubt sentences will be highlighted and replyed upon and then it will go on and on,

p.s great post m8

 

To cut a long story short, Hamas are the world scum. they hate jews, christians, actually everyone apart from their own religion. they want to murder everything apart from their own faith. they are no humans anymore, just killingmachines. I really can't say if that's true or not, I have never ever met one of them, but I can imagine they look like that to israelis.

I'm not saying your lying Feed The Bear, not at all, but I find the way you picture them a bit extreme. you could be right and they are monster of wickedness. but I think if you asked a german in the ww2 what he thought about a brit or russian, he would have said similar things. on the other hand I can imagine under such a huge pressure you have to get mad. israel have got the 4th strongerst army in the world? extremely expensive hightech weapons, airplanes, rockets, guns, just everything. on the other side there are a few arabs with a few old russian guns and even older rockets. the military strength is incomparable, yet those guys still wanna attack and defend against their biggest enemy. with such limited ressources their only way is to fight the dirty guerrilla war.

We have been discussing about the whole palestina v israel issue, however I actually only wanted to talk about the recent bombings.

As I said, they use dirty guerrilla tactics, otherwise they would be wipped off the map within a few seconds.

back to my main question: does the recent hamas actions justify a new crusade against palestina? they have been dropping bombs for 4 days now. you can't be seriously when you believe 95% of the killed ones are hamas fighters. after 4 days of dropping bombs on a city?? the ones that suffer from that the most are the civilians. their infrastructure will be gone once again, various houses and buildings are destroyed, a lot of homeless people once again.

palestina is poor, they don't have much, even the hamas are armed with poor weapons. after several bombings they will have even less, all what remains is their belief, their hate, their wrath. every bomb israel drop on palestina will only improve the hamas might. more and more people will be joining and supporting them.

hamas would like to hit israel hard, but they are not capable of doing that with their old and * rockets. israel on the other hit back, 10 times harder with hightech weapons. killing cilivians without hesitation with the excuse "they would do the same".

here is my main question again: is that proportional? please somebody enlighten me. a simple "yes, because" or "no". no answers like "what else do you wanna do".

I remember when russia sent rockets towards Georgia the whole world shouted "it was unproportional". however when Israel do it it's just selfdefence.

by the way the reason why no one helps palestina is simple. if you mess with israel you will have to mess with the americans.

 

israel stated when it pulled out of Gaza a few years ago it wanted free and fair elections and a police force established in the territory. What they really wanted was a party in control and a police force that was answerable to them. Hamas won the election fairly and went about setting up a police-force. It was the israeli's at this point who made the decision that they would have to eventually eliminate Hamas from the equation.

A bit rich seeming as israel is blockading the place and turns around hundreds of UN trucks daily from Gaza..

Wow, israeli doctors may treat a few civillians while bombing the * out of the rest of them. israel treats a few Palestinians, let's praise them and forget that they've probably killed ten times more civillians than they'll ever treat.

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I need proof or else I won't believe you on this one. israel does a lot worse, such as bombing a block of flats where 100 people they live because one Hamas commanders family stay in there..

This is just you trying to turn people who see through israel against Hamas. Hamas condemned these attacks and even deployed armed militia to stop these attacks. Speaking of abusing Christians, it is israel who denies people the opportunity to visit Bethlehem, it is israel which deploys tanks on the street where Jesus was born, it is israel who has bombed churches etc. it works both ways.

israel? It is the UN who supplies Gaza, and it is israel who refuses to let the supplies in for days on end.

israel vowed to destroy Hamas when they came into power in Gaza

Because your beloved israel built a * wall that is illegal under international law in between you and the West Bank. Peaceful my *. Just a 50ft. concrete wall which seperates farmers from their own farms and families from families has also stopped people attacking israel. Collective punishment.

Well Hamas probably saw what kidnapping members of the iOF got Hezbollah so wanted a slice of the cake themselves. israel has always vowed to destroy Hamas btw, rockets or no rockets, it was inevitable.

 

Haha. It would be good if those were his exact words

 

Here's a good wee list of naughtiness from the Israeli Government. Tsk tsk.

List of United Nations resolutions concerning Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

ZEN do you see no faults in Hezbollah whatsoever,,if you do what percentage


you dont seem to want to agree or compromise at all,,theres a word for that ,but i cant think of it

 

I don't work by percentages in these situations mate

arrogance? big-headedness?

 

100% wrong. Hamas came into power with a charter (read it) which clearly states their stated aim is to destroy the State of Israel.
Israel left Gaza, lock stock and barrel. Hamas spent 4 years throwing rockets into Israeli towns. You just don't see the big picture but only that portion you want to see. Not once have I read one comment of yours condemning Hamas or Islamic Jihad for firing rockets at Israeli towns.

Again, wrong. 100 trucks were given access to Gaza this morning.

So now Hamas are civillians? You have no idea of the amount of Gazans that have been treated in Israeli hospitals and clinics or the amount of Gazan women who receive free IVF treatment in Israeli clinics, or the amount of Gazan children who receive specilised treatment from Israeli doctors due to illnesses inherrent as a result of inbreeding, yet you freely throw condemnations around. I don't notice Egyptian or Jordanina doctors lining up to treat them....only Israelis.

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If you seriously believe they don't store weapons in homes, mosques and other civillian frequented areas, you are seriously delusional.

Errrmm...wrong again. I was in Bethlehem last year and anyone with a non-Israeli passport can enter Bethlehem any time they please. Get your facts right! Why not come over and we'll go tank spotting together....but you'll be disappointed as there are NO tanks in Bethlehem!

Wrong....again. Check your facts. yes the UN supply Gaza, with partial supplies. Israel supplies them with Electricity, diesel fuel, medicines, baby food and numerous other items.

Wrong again. Israel pulled out of Gaza and warned Hamas not to attack. They've been warning them for 4 years but Hamas have a staited aim, in their charter, to detroy the State of Israel...have a read up, you might educate your tiny mind!

One thing though...Israel now vows to destroy Hamas!

Not "my beloved Israel" but I believe in parity, unlike yourself. The wall was built because of the amount of suicide bombing which was taking place by Islamic Jihad and Hamas terrorists. No-one really cares any more whether it's illegal or not....it does it's job. While you're on the subject of collective punishment...is rocketing kindergartens and schools not collective punishment and a war crime under international law? Think you'll find that it is....if you can be arsed to read up on that!

So that's your idea of a reasonable argument? Hezbollah terrorists done it so Hamas terrorists can do it also? That justifies your whole argument and support of Hamas.

Pathetic attempt at reasonable debate. So one sided and *-handed it's laughable. You conveniently chose to completely disregard any counter argument and blindly follow your support of Hamas. Wonder how you'd feel if they were throwing rockets at your town every day for four years!

 

This post is totally out of order and I have reported it. You need to get a grip pal.
People like you have no place on this site, let alone this debate.

 

CAN YOU ANSWER MY QUESTION ,YES OR NO

forget the percentage question

 

We only have your word for this and I am not really going to disagree with you anyway.
But you seem to be trying to justify Israeli murder by saying that the Israelis do good things too.
It's like saying Hitler killed loads of Jews but his doctors saved some too.
You are defending murder and maiming of civilians as if it's okay to kill them cos we've been good to them in the past.

 

the percentage question was to get a feel on how strongly you feel on the subject,,weather blame is shared or its all israel's fault,


but every time i ask you a question you get all defencive and flippant,

im not getting at you or picking on you ,i just want to know how much u blame israel

 

henke hes not saying that at all,,,ffs,,,,israeli murder,,i would have called it self defence ,theres a big difference


do u know why we only have his word for it,as no one can say hes wrong,,facts dont lie,,so IT IS only his word

THATS THE POINT

IT SEEMS your and zens head are both up your arses,you cant see a different point form a guy who is actually there

 

My head's not up my * mate...

 

Tim Park, Feed the Bear seems to really know what he's talking about when it comes to what's going on over there, but I don't think actually being there makes a huge difference.

Obviously he knows more about everyday events, but the big issues are widely reported around the world and Henke or Zen are just as qualified to give their piece on it.

 

I'm away to the gym now so I'll answer FTB's posts later on..

In the meantime, here's a cracking article from Robert Fisk in the Independent.

 

twice you have avoided the question,i wont ask a third,,,fuksake

 

im ashamed at some of the pro israeli comments on here

 

Just cos he's in Israel doesn't mean he knows all the fact so get you ain heid out yer *.
If I told you lies about the 15 people shot at a political club last week in Malta would you believe every word of it because I live here, even though I wasn't there when the shooting was done?

The facts can be seen that Israel are out to crush Hamas and they don't care who gets hurt in the process. You try telling the children who are horrifically injured by the Israeli bombs that it's okay.
Whatever Hamas are doing Israel is a State and should try every means possible to avoid civilian casualties. That is the responsibilty of any state.
When they fail to do that they become a terrorist state.
In WW2 the Americans dropped two atom bombs on Japan and killed hundreds of thousands of civilians to save American lives.
Just because they killed to save their own people doesn't make it right.
And just for the record I am not a supporter of Hams. They are terrorising Israelis every day.

And Davey, just because I have a different opinion to Feed the Bear, I don't need you telling me to get my head out my *.
You seem to have yours firmly stuck up FTB's * on this.