Is it time for an irish referendum

I think you are looking at very simplistically. If it was done tomorrow yes landslide but say in 2 years when everything has been discussed in great detail it would definitely not be a landslide with the way the country will be for the near future. .

 

If you are going to ignore the border then what is the point in a referendum on scrapping the border.

IMO Sinn Fheinn need to radically change their image in order to get some northern prods on their side. I think they need to consider a total image change and draw a line under the past like its ground zero and present themselves more like a boring but modern party like the SNP. As it stands Sinn Fheinn still look very much like a cultural nationalist party of a divided society. They really will need to radically change this. Maybe in time the party will have few people in it who were associated with the IRA and that would make them more able to appeal to prods but they will have to do what the SNP has done and tone down the Gaelic, references to the troubles etc. They need to decide if they want to be a modern practical party like any other but with an aim of a united Ireland or whether they want to continue to be a cultural nationalist tribal pseudo revolutionary party that looks back at the troubles a lot.

 

I'm talking about an all-Ireland poll now and I think the arguments for the inclusion of the north will make more sense to everyone

 

I think sinn fein already has but if it changes anymore it probably won't be republican anymore so there would be no point I'm sure the sdlp would fill that role anyways

 

Its just not possible for us to do it in the next few years atleast we need to have the country in a place where a united Ireland could only be a good thing for ROI.

 

Because the border itself is undemocratic and was put there against the democratic wishes of the majority of Ireland. You can't create an artificial gerrymandered state and expect people of a republican/nationalist background to recognize its legitimacy. You can't appease everyone, but the Unionist minority have had it their own way for 100 years now against the wishes of the majority.

Sinn Fein are the largest party in Ireland and are attracting middle class votes in the South, so i don't think a radical change in image would be needed to be honest. The die hard Unionists will never buy into the idea of a United Ireland, just like the knuckle draggers in George square last night wouldn't want an Independent Scotland.

 

Economist talks United Ireland: [ame]http://youtu.be/sFpWMOLHgrE[/ame]

Obviously only one but still food for thought

 

Protestants are embracing the Irish language.

http://audioboo.fm/boos/1894312-pro...angeman-says-jim-allister-jude-collins-debate

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs5fqq2YumA"]Béal Feirste ag foghlaim Gaeilge,Loyalist community,learning,Irish language,East Belfast,Newtownards - YouTube[/ame]
Loyalist community,learning,Irish language,East Belfast,Newtownards

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19715146

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...e-chief-who-hit-out-at-language-29973255.html

 

Whit? :smiley-laughing002:

Out of all the parties that need to modernise, Sinn Fein are way, way down the list.

 

: [ame]http://youtu.be/U1rzhD13dVU[/ame]


Even the orange order are learning it

 

I agree with you about Sinn Fein and their need to change. Although to be fair if you look at how far they have come from 1980 to where they are today they are changing and going in the kind of direction your talking about. But they are having to do it very slowly so as not to splinter the movement. I think they have already decided to be a modern fully democratic party but are just chnaging bit by bit in that direction. Given their past its not an easy on off switch.

 

I think I know where your coming from talking about Fianna Fail, Fine Gael and Labour who have sold so many Irish people down the river for so long. But he does have a point about Sinn Fein and in fairness I think Sinn Fein are making progress and maybe finally we may have a truly viable left wing progressive party in Ireland if they can continue to build on what they have achieved in recent years.

 

By the way to answer the question. I don't know if it is time. But I hope there is one as I for sure would make sure I made some moves to make sure I could be there to vote yes being a born and bred Irishman although I currently live in the US.

 

Sinn Féin will never attract the Unionist supporters in the north. Due to both its history and because of its modern positions. The majority of Unionists are still conservative Christians, and Sinn Féin cannot appeal to them. There has to be changes, but not the changes Sinn Féin have went through.

I think a referendum at this time would be disastrous for the Six Counties. Society there is in no way stable enough to cope with such a campaign. Just look at the state of Scotland right now and the rioting in Glasgow. It would be ten times worse in Ireland. The Troubles would start again. Then there is the fact that the Unionist community still holds a slight majority, and I think the people in the Republic that would oppose re-unification are more numerous than ever. And finally the reality is that any campaign to unite Ireland which is based solely upon us all being "on the one road" will be doomed to fail. The Republic has to be economically attractive to the Unionists.

First, a sound infrastructure has to be laid down between the Republic and the Six Counties. Belfast and Derry have to be connected to the Island as a whole. Cross-border jobs and investment are a must. An economically left party, which is socially conservative, and desires a united Ireland, would be fantastic, as it would have a broader appeal to the Unionist commnity over the out-right Marxism of Sinn Féin. It would have to be new faces. Gerry Adams, McGuinness, etc., all have to go.

We have to wait for all of them to go. The old heroes of Unionism, the old faces of Nationalism. They're all strong connections to the past. They're a reminder to both communities. There has to be fresh faces, a new generation of politicians and campaigners that aren't attached to the Troubles as explicitly as the other men.

Make the Republic an attractive option, put forward a new generation of Republicans who have never held a gun, and only offer their hand in friendship. Create jobs and encourage movement between the two states. Then we'll get an independent Ireland.

 

Nope.

The NO vote in Scotland is still too fresh.

Too many wishy washy * in Ireland anyway.

Can't see any sort of vote in tje next 20 years

 

* them, if they dont want a united Ireland when the time comes they can * off back to Scotland.

 

An Irishman talking like Nick Griffin.

 

This is wrong. The Protestant Unionist community are Irishmen. They have lived in Ireland for generations, they've been in Ireland for centuries. They are absolutely tied in to the history for the nation, for good and for bad, and they are one of communities that made modern Ireland.

I believe the movement of the Gaelic League, etc., to establish a strong Gaelic Irish identity was necessary for the people of the island. But the Gaelic Irish Catholics are not the only Irishmen. The people are different, but the nation is one.

Unionists have to be treated exactly as they are: Irishmen that believe in the Union. It wasn't so long ago that you had Catholic Irishmen in the south that were pro-Union as well. *, you'll still find a few of those rare creatures today.

The British Empire took away the *-given right of the people of Ireland to self-determination when they created the gerrmandered and illicit state of Northern Ireland to serve their own economic and political interests. We cannot in good conscience do the same to the Protestant community. Two wrongs will not make a right.

 

Do they see themselves as Irishmen though? No, the vast majoirty consider themselves to be British.
Of course, they have every right to think that way.

There is actually a facebook page, Protestants for a united Ireland (maybe not a trustworthy item to use as fact, but still) that has a substantial number of 'likes'.
This gives me hope, hope that the protestant community will accept that a United Ireland is in the best interests of not just the country, but the economy and most importantly, the people that live on this island.

I refer to my previous post, as to the ones who will never accept the inevitable, which is the uniting of this small island.