Is Anyone Else Getting Fed Up With The Conspiracy Nonsense?

CelticFC1967 · Apr 25, 2012

devlin1888 said: ↑

It went deeper than just hatred against Irish and Catholics. It was a feeling of being superior that was instilled into them, first by the Government and then by Rangers. The people who were 'born of proper stock'. The Peepil.

It was right through society; hence people getting into positions of power and it does go onto this day. Hence people like Campbell Ogilvie and George Peat being involved for how long they have been/were.

That's why I have high hopes for Regan; without sounding morbid; most of Ogilvie's type are old now. With somebody knew in hopefully there replacements will not be like for like.
Click to expand...

True, that's an extension of what I meant by the 'establishment'. There was a definate feeling of looking down upon the lowly 'fenians' from all over - hence the 'Catholics need not apply' signs.

AD1967 · Apr 25, 2012

last few post from Devlin have been top quality, cant see how anyone can argue with what he is saying.

Ache · Apr 25, 2012

Take a bow Devlin. Surely now the doubters will have their own list of evidence..........

Skelleto · Apr 25, 2012

devlin1888 said: ↑

The thing with this is people like to concentrate on the way it manifests itself on the pitch and say “Oh but that happens to everyone” and yes; to a certain extent it does happen to everyone. I’d argue it doesn’t happen as much in big games to any other club in the SPL other than Celtic but there you go that’s an argument for another day that I don’t want to focus on just now.

I’ve been using my mobile throughout this debate so couldn’t say as much as I really wanted due to it being a pain in the hole typing on a mobile phone.

People in here need to learn and study about the culture in Scotland since the mid 1800’s and beyond; historically there has been anti-Catholic and anti-Irish racism. This was actively encouraged by the Government at the time; due to the economic situation and poverty throughout Scotland. Blame Johnny Foreigner and all that.

In the middle of all this Celtic were founded; originally intended to unite and help both sides of the divide; now Irish Catholics seen the club as a beacon of hope and flocked to it. For relatively many years Celtic and Rangers co-existed in peace; the persecution of the Irish in Scotland was still going on but the ‘Old Firm’ that now existed were on friendly terms.

That is until Celtic started surpassing Rangers in terms of support and achievement on the field and their chairman in the early 1900’s spotted an opportunity.

He took the ill feeling against the people that made up the majority of our support; the poor; the immigrants; the Irish Catholics; they who everybody were against and he twisted it to his own purpose; he went down to the shipyards and announced that Rangers were the club for the Protestant majority and he was successful in his campaign.

An already bitter feeling towards our support was turned; it was us against them. Suddenly Rangers were the establishment club; if you were anyone of ‘a proper background’ then you were on that side of the divide. This included the heads of the Footballing Association at the time.

From this time forward you have many instances of persecution from the authorities in Scotland against Celtic; culminating in an attempt to get us to take our Tri Colour down from above the stand at Celtic Park in the 1950’s - “You aren’t Irish” was the cry at the time and we were prepared to go out of business for it. It came down to a vote in the football clubs; ironically; Rangers voted against it to save us.

From here on you get the evidence of great figures throughout Celtic’s history. From Jock Stein saying that Celtic need to be better than any other team in the country to beat the referees in the 70’s; to Billy McNeill outright stating he always felt we were cheated in the 80’s.

This brings us up to Jim Farry and Wee Fergus in the 90’s; Fergus McCann was the first man Celtic had at the helm in a very long time who was a proper business man; the first man who came in from the outside and took a look at the old boys club at the SFA; which since around 1910 had not changed; jobs for the boys.

Like minded individuals got the promotions; the mates got the jobs and the attitude of against Celtic; against the Irish Catholic’s had permeated and poisoned the SFA to the present day.

Fergus went after him like a terrier and he caught him; Farry had withheld Jorge Cadette’s registration until Rangers had had a chance to play us without our new star signing. Celtic believed at the time that a man called George Peat was heavily involved; our lawyers while they agreed with us about Peat; thought that Farry would be better got at alone; as it was harder to prove Peat…

This brings us through to the present day; George Peat freshly retired from a position of power (and another tirade against Celtic…) in 2011 hands the reigns over to his mate Campbell Ogilvie.

Campbell Ogilvie has reigned over Rangers for a large part of his life; he was steeped in a Sectarian signing policy; he done nothing to stop it; infact he backed it. He is now one of the major players in our game. Jobs for the boys…

From Hugh Dallas getting the sack for being caught in anti-Catholic jokes to members of the SFA coming out and saying that the sectarianism within the SFA is canteen culture; it is still alive to this day.

Make no doubt about it; we are the enemy; they are just following what their fathers done and their fathers before them.

This is just a basic history; not all; there are many more examples; there are many more warts on Scottish Culture to do with this issue that backs it up.

For people to not take this seriously or at least take a look at it is denying over a century and a half of information that is at their disposal.

It can and does happen in this day; we are striving towards a fix but in times of poverty and trouble the warts on society always come back out.

Unfortunately that is exactly what is happening in Scotland just now; with a certain club in particular that attracts these like minded individuals.

They always do say beware the wounded animal.
Click to expand...

Amazing post. Thanks

Liam Scales · Apr 25, 2012

Cheers lads

TAB · Apr 25, 2012

devlin1888 said: ↑

The thing with this is people like to concentrate on the way it manifests itself on the pitch and say “Oh but that happens to everyone” and yes; to a certain extent it does happen to everyone. I’d argue it doesn’t happen as much in big games to any other club in the SPL other than Celtic but there you go that’s an argument for another day that I don’t want to focus on just now.

I’ve been using my mobile throughout this debate so couldn’t say as much as I really wanted due to it being a pain in the hole typing on a mobile phone.

People in here need to learn and study about the culture in Scotland since the mid 1800’s and beyond; historically there has been anti-Catholic and anti-Irish racism. This was actively encouraged by the Government at the time; due to the economic situation and poverty throughout Scotland. Blame Johnny Foreigner and all that.

In the middle of all this Celtic were founded; originally intended to unite and help both sides of the divide; now Irish Catholics seen the club as a beacon of hope and flocked to it. For relatively many years Celtic and Rangers co-existed in peace; the persecution of the Irish in Scotland was still going on but the ‘Old Firm’ that now existed were on friendly terms.

That is until Celtic started surpassing Rangers in terms of support and achievement on the field and their chairman in the early 1900’s spotted an opportunity.

He took the ill feeling against the people that made up the majority of our support; the poor; the immigrants; the Irish Catholics; they who everybody were against and he twisted it to his own purpose; he went down to the shipyards and announced that Rangers were the club for the Protestant majority and he was successful in his campaign.

An already bitter feeling towards our support was turned; it was us against them. Suddenly Rangers were the establishment club; if you were anyone of ‘a proper background’ then you were on that side of the divide. This included the heads of the Footballing Association at the time.

From this time forward you have many instances of persecution from the authorities in Scotland against Celtic; culminating in an attempt to get us to take our Tri Colour down from above the stand at Celtic Park in the 1950’s - “You aren’t Irish” was the cry at the time and we were prepared to go out of business for it. It came down to a vote in the football clubs; ironically; Rangers voted against it to save us.

From here on you get the evidence of great figures throughout Celtic’s history. From Jock Stein saying that Celtic need to be better than any other team in the country to beat the referees in the 70’s; to Billy McNeill outright stating he always felt we were cheated in the 80’s.

This brings us up to Jim Farry and Wee Fergus in the 90’s; Fergus McCann was the first man Celtic had at the helm in a very long time who was a proper business man; the first man who came in from the outside and took a look at the old boys club at the SFA; which since around 1910 had not changed; jobs for the boys.

Like minded individuals got the promotions; the mates got the jobs and the attitude of against Celtic; against the Irish Catholic’s had permeated and poisoned the SFA to the present day.

Fergus went after him like a terrier and he caught him; Farry had withheld Jorge Cadette’s registration until Rangers had had a chance to play us without our new star signing. Celtic believed at the time that a man called George Peat was heavily involved; our lawyers while they agreed with us about Peat; thought that Farry would be better got at alone; as it was harder to prove Peat…

This brings us through to the present day; George Peat freshly retired from a position of power (and another tirade against Celtic…) in 2011 hands the reigns over to his mate Campbell Ogilvie.

Campbell Ogilvie has reigned over Rangers for a large part of his life; he was steeped in a Sectarian signing policy; he done nothing to stop it; infact he backed it. He is now one of the major players in our game. Jobs for the boys…

From Hugh Dallas getting the sack for being caught in anti-Catholic jokes to members of the SFA coming out and saying that the sectarianism within the SFA is canteen culture; it is still alive to this day.

Make no doubt about it; we are the enemy; they are just following what their fathers done and their fathers before them.

This is just a basic history; not all; there are many more examples; there are many more warts on Scottish Culture to do with this issue that backs it up.

For people to not take this seriously or at least take a look at it is denying over a century and a half of information that is at their disposal.

It can and does happen in this day; we are striving towards a fix but in times of poverty and trouble the warts on society always come back out.

Unfortunately that is exactly what is happening in Scotland just now; with a certain club in particular that attracts these like minded individuals.

They always do say beware the wounded animal.
Click to expand...

Just seeing this now, top post Devlin.

tinyheadbhoy · Apr 25, 2012

excellent posts guys, anyone who denies this are deluded.

Jelly+Ice Cream · Apr 25, 2012

Dev

Liam Scales · Apr 25, 2012

Ache · Apr 25, 2012

tinyheadbhoy said: ↑

excellent posts guys, anyone who denies this are deluded.
Click to expand...

Better not say that mate, they don't like it

TIM O'Brien · Apr 25, 2012

Nice post devlin...

Can I just ask what it is people think happens exactly? Do we think that the sfa sit down with referees at the start of the season and tell certain referees they'll be in charge of certain games, and that they should make sure a certain team win??

Liam Scales · Apr 25, 2012

TIM O'Brien said: ↑

Nice post devlin...

Can I just ask what it is people think happens exactly? Do we think that the sfa sit down with referees at the start of the season and tell certain referees they'll be in charge of certain games, and that they should make sure a certain team win??
Click to expand...

Nobody has ever said that. It is inherant bias within the SFA; the members in power of the SFA have always favoured Rangers and that manifests itself in the way they act and the pressure that goes down the ranks to their members; the other members that they promote and back all the way; which the referees are part of.

It is human nature.

CelticFC1967 · Apr 25, 2012

TIM O'Brien said: ↑

Nice post devlin...

Can I just ask what it is people think happens exactly? Do we think that the sfa sit down with referees at the start of the season and tell certain referees they'll be in charge of certain games, and that they should make sure a certain team win??
Click to expand...

No I don't think anyone is suggesting anything of the kind. The referee's know fine well how to work their way to the top in Scotland. Going through the smaller leagues, it'll be well known (and has been proven by ex-referees) that it is necessary to do a shitload of *-licking to the powers that be. The ones that make it as far as the SPL and manage to stay there without being thrown by the wayside (Richmond etc) will be so far up the arses of men like George Peat, Campbell Ogilvie, Hugh Dallas and such like. Men of a hunnish persuasion, to put it lightly. The likes of Willie Collum, Murray, Brines, Thomson, Conquer etc know fine well what they need to do to make it far in the refereeing business...

TIM O'Brien · Apr 25, 2012

CelticFC1967 said: ↑

No I don't think anyone is suggesting anything of the kind. The referee's know fine well how to work their way to the top in Scotland. Going through the smaller leagues, it'll be well known (and has been proven by ex-referees) that it is necessary to do a shitload of *-licking to the powers that be. The ones that make it as far as the SPL and manage to stay there without being thrown by the wayside (Richmond etc) will be so far up the arses of men like George Peat, Campbell Ogilvie, Hugh Dallas and such like. Men of a hunnish persuasion, to put it lightly. The likes of Willie Collum, Murray, Brines, Thomson, Conquer etc know fine well what they need to do to make it far in the refereeing business...
Click to expand...

Fair enough I can see where your coming from

evilbunny1991 · Apr 25, 2012

devlin1888 said: ↑

Nobody has ever said that. It is inherant bias within the SFA; the members in power of the SFA have always favoured Rangers and that manifests itself in the way they act and the pressure that goes down the ranks to their members; the other members that they promote and back all the way; which the referees are part of.

It is human nature.
Click to expand...

Surely Inherant bias is completely different from a conspiracy though? Or am i missing something. Like O'Brian says the definition of a conspiracy would be secret meetings between the SFA and the refs who would hence conspire to make wrong decisions that lead to Celtic loosing a game or something along those lines.

Yes there will be individuals in the past and now who have some form of agenda against Celtic, but i think more often than not its sheer incompetence of referees.

The way fans devote their time and attention into this conspiracy business is like they believe the Freemasons or Illuminati are conspiring against all things Celtic/Irish/Catholic.

There is little doubt in my mind in the past there has been some form of Institutional bias, but i wouldn't go as far as saying its some kind of conspiracy.

Liam Scales · Apr 25, 2012

People seem to like to call it a 'conspiracy' to belittle it. Nobody who is arguing what we are have ever said that.

If you don't believe that reference every single one of sween's condescending, dismissive arguments in this thread.

evilbunny1991 · Apr 25, 2012

Right i agree there is an institutional bias but as i have already said i don't think there is a conspiracy against us.

Liam Scales · Apr 25, 2012

Do you think thats right and we should just accept it?

Ache · Apr 25, 2012

So we're all agreed that there is an "institutional bias" against Celtic/Catholics and or The Irish within the Scottish Football ruling bodies?

evilbunny1991 · Apr 25, 2012

I don't think we should accept it, but then again as Celtic fans we might say there is evidence of institutional bias but then that doesn't mean others will believe it. Don't accept it if you feel strongly about the issue.

For me i don't think about it too much to be honest, i like to focus more on what happens with our football team rather than decisions that go against us. But thats just me.

Is Anyone Else Getting Fed Up With The Conspiracy Nonsense?

Jelly+Ice Cream Gold Member Gold Member