If we changed our tactics would we still need a new centre-back?

I think the main problem is lack of quality centre back's, definitely.

Our two midfielder's have both pulled their weight defensively I feel, our RB and LB are both capable defensively, when Wilson is preferred.

I think we definitely need more quality in the CB area, I think a more defence minded central midfielder paired beside Ki wouldn't do us any harm either, I hope that player can be Kayal.

 

Now that you say it, you have a really good point, it can't be a coincidence that the majority of centre backs we've had in the past few years have been bad, must just be the way we've been playing

 

rite now at this time i would have hooiveld rogne and majstorovic our 3 centre halfs with cha/willson and izzy playin as wingbacks this may change after january of hoo ever we bring in but i thought agains dundee united we looked quite good and then we took hooiveld off wel looked quite shakey

 

spot on. Brilliant post. I think all but serious quality pacey CHs would look mugs in our way of playing. I think several of our CHs have looked far better in a deeper more compact system such as we played in CL games under Strachan. Personally the idea we can play with one CM, 2 FBS, 2 wingers and 2 strikers all commited forwards with only the CHs and maybe one CM holding the fort is idiotic. I am really surprised that Lenny plays such as system given the sort of player he was. Until fans stop believing the total pish that is the Celtic way myth (which is the childhood of football undestanding) and the club stops pandering to the fans (many of whom just aint rational) then we are going nowhere. All of our title winning teams of the last 20 years played tight systematic stuff not free flowing attacking football - Wim, MON and WGS. These 3 were not identical but they were shared safe structured style. All the guys i the last 20 years who had a dream to play in a specific attacking style failed - Burns, Barnes, Mogga.

 

Under MON we played far more safety first with 2 walls of three in the centre from the CM to the CHs. I think Mjallby in particular would struggle in more commited attacking systems of the last few years. Mjalby too never looked good when it was only 2 CHs. I know he is a cult hero but I think Mjallby needed a specific system and partners to prosper. He was also protected by two extremely experience specialist DMs.

Strachan played a more difficult system for defenders to handle, with one attacking CM usually and two we wide men. However, I think he still tended to have steel in CM and also the FBs were not quite so overcommited. He played what were then mainly young CHs too. I think they didnt get the credit they deserve and their record and their CL performances are often forgotten because of some bad patches. There was a problem with lack of pace but WGS saw that and tried to make sure the team played carefully in terms of possession.

Lenny IMO has not only very dodgy CHs but the FBs are essentially attackers, 2 wingers are played and recently (although he has no choice at the moment) he has played CMs with limited ability to do the DM role. IMO its the most overcommitted to attack team since Tommy Burns's side.

So, yes, I think 90% of CHs will look bad right now at Celtic unless they are not only decent but pacey and able to make up for the huge open spaces behind and between them.

 

I reckon we have to rethink our whole system, and also get rid of the zonal marking system, if we are ever going to be able to win the league again.As Gunt has eloquently pointed out, our three most recent and successful managers Wim, WGS and MON all played successful systems that were sound and practical. Where I differ from the consensus of opinion, is that I don't think that Lenny has thrown caution to the wind by playing a more attacking formation, rather I think he has been compelled to do it because of the unfortunate long term injuries to Brown and Kayal, two key central midfielders who are integral to playing a more centralised system.Simply put Lenny has had no option but to go for broke just now with the more attacking formation in the hope that it would prevail in the SPL, unfortunately this gamble has come unstuck because of basic errors by our centre backs, and our our two man midfield being swamped by more physical and numerous opponents. I still think we are better suited to a 4-1-3-2 system which would give us the best of both worlds, and satisfy the eternal cravings of the Celtic support who always want to see attacking and ultimately winning football.We, Celtic are defined by our attacking football, but you need the right players and system to make it work, and to be able to deliver trophies and titles in the process.

 

It would be grossly naive if Lenny plays the usual 4-4-2 in the next OF game. We need more in the MF to protect the dodgy CHs and we need the FBs to defend. I would seriously think about playing Wilson at RB and maybe just Hooper up (I dont rate our other strikers anyway). In CM I would play both Kayal and Broony with either Ki or Ledley. We really need to make ourselves as difficult to penetrate as Rangers are. Its not rocket science.

 

The three in the midfield have to be able to tackle. I don't think either Ki or Ledley can tackle, and they were both easily brushed aside in the last Ranger's encounter. I would be inclined to gamble and experiment and play Richie Towell alongside Brown and Kayal because he is more combative than either Ki or Ledley.

 

At the start of the season we played in a 4-2-3-1 formation and didn't concede for ages, we looked solid while still being attack minded. Maloney was also playing really well behind the front man and the centre midfielders gave a lot of protection infront of the back four. This changed I think because of injurys to brown, forrest, kayal etc and hooper coming back from injury. So when everyones fit I think this might be the way forward.

 

ki was the best man on the park for us the last old firm game and never got brushed a side he was getting in about it like he has done for the last couple of months but I agree that brown and kayal should play with ki in front of them two set up the attacks and get forward

 

great post totally agree its all to do with the balance and yes lennons arm has been twisted due to injuries but we need 1CB defo loovens hooiveld dont look like they will ever cut it

 

the problem is the manager hasnt a clue ! yes our centre backs are poor but the way we play leaves them exposed all the time. 2 full backs that push on far too much, 2 wingers who cant defend and are forwards more often than not, 2 centre mids which none of them are holding players. we could get 2 good centre backs in january but if we continue to play the way we do they will get exposed too!!

 

good post. i think we really just need a holding player like you said who stops the balls being played through and wins breaking balls in that area

 

It's obvious we have to change tactics, not all our cbs are * surely

 

dont agree about full-backs izzy is a born wing back, wilson can do a job as well. it,s the formation,lennon played in a 3-5-2, we could easily do this, to make our defence stronger. ledley sits defending playing simple balls, he,s good at that ki and paddy playing killer balls ,or ki and ledley sitting ,paddy playing off front two. lot easier system to change.

 

I think we should seperate the issues of defending and attacking, even back in days of Craig and Gemmell we never had both rampaging forward at the same time, our full backs have to be more disciplined and not get caught out of position so often.

Any defence is only good if it works collectively as a single system, and I don't call zonal marking a collective system. Teams get use to you defending zonally and then load up one area of the box so that you'll be out numbered, no each player plays his part, picks up each threat as the manager sees fit.

At any time we should have at least five players (not including the goalie) on defensive duty even when we're attacking, when we don't have the ball our midfielders (3 or 4) should be back behind the ball, not strolling back like I've seen in too many games this season.

Yes playing the likes of Maloney, Mc Ginn, Mc Court and Forest on the midfield wide position is great when you can dominate teams like Aberdeen, St Mirren, etc, but against Rangers and European opponents we need to have a far more solid approach to the team's line-up, not losing stupid goals should be our top priority.

Playing the Celtic Way is to play with flair, fast exciting free flowing football, but that only works if you have enough playings of similar ability throughout the team, I don't see that within this Celtic team, I'd love too, but I don't think the basic ability is there.

 

Our side is to attacking and to technical. We need to sort out our starting 11 with the defence we cant settle on a rotational squad. Sitting with the 4-4-2 is been brutal this season we need to play a holding role player to feed for the midfield and centre backs. We defo need a centre back in January.