How bad was our European campaign

I don't know why either,if we played Leicester now with their form,I fear a horrible mauling.

 

Agree with this. We were doing what is supposed to be the hard bit by scoring goals and creating chances but letting in really poor goals. If we can sort out our defence, maybe!

 

* terrible.:smiley-laughing002:

Gordon is a complete bottle merchant, pure and simple. When we got put under pressure Gordon became nervous; the defense became nervous; and we started leaking like the Iraq navy. I thought Gordon would bounce back after Inter Milan, but in big games he is a basket case.

Malmo summed it all up. Played great and scored goals but we folded under pressure. I see no improvement in our mentality; instead of savouring the moment, and enjoying the big occasion, we fear it.

 

Very

 

If we'd defended better... if we'd been more clinical... if we'd cut out silly mistakes... if we'd had more bottle under pressure... if our coaches had more guile and nous...

Which part of that are we meant to take the positive from? That we can't possibly have it all go wrong at the same time again? I know what people are saying, and I agree to a large extent that our campaign and our results don't tally fairly, and that we were unlucky. But, you make your own luck in football, nobody gifts you stuff (except efe!). We SHOULD have got better, gone further and had more to be positive about, but the fact we didn't is ALL ON US!

Until the last few games where we've kept clean sheets we've shipped a goal a game in the spl and in the important games in europe (malmo and tge EL group) we averaged 2. In all the games we lost in the spl it was a single goal the took us down. 1 less on either malmo match and we're in the CL. 1 less in each EL game and we've 3wins, 2draws and 11 points... small margins, but critical outcomes.

Now, in the last 3 or 4 seasons we've moved on a fantastic keeper, great defenders and blinding defensive midfielders. This year on top of that we've had our captain and most experienced defensive player injured. All this left us shockingly exposed, at a level where that's fatal. My friend used an expression years ago that keeps coming to mind - "there's only so many times you can go to the well before the water runs dry..."

Couple it with our attacking form. I love Griffiths, but he's wasteful. 1 goal in 5 efforts is ok in Scotland where he's getting 10 a game, but it's not in europe where he's a lone striker getting only about 3 or 4 efforts of note per game. With our attacking midfielders also mostly MIA our fate was surely sealed

 

For me it was about lessons learnt which we didn't do, we kept making the same mistakes time and time again even in the league we have consistently been making the same errors in judgement. So as much as we didn't fulfil the potential of what we should have had this European campaign. We did get exactly what we deserved nothing, if you cant learn from the previous games then you will not achieve anything.

to place it down to Individual errors is fine for the first game, but what did the Management do about sorting out the individuals/concentration levels/tactics to counteract mistakes/defined roles and responsibilities/leassons learnt

I never seen any of this in the Europa Cup Stage games we continued in the same fashion game after game. you they say madness is to continue to do the same thing each time but expect a different result.

well what we seen in Europe this Year was Total Madness. (One Step Beyond)

 

Ronny has been switching between 4-2-3-1 and 4-1-2-3 (4-5-1) for quite some time now - including the European campaign in question. 4-1-2-3 has already proven to be a sturdy option for tough away games, and 4-2-3-1 works well against weaker opposition. I don't think it's a matter of system or shape, but rather the fact that Celtic currently is seriously lacking in quality out wide. It's basically just the fullbacks (and the CAM in 4-2-3-1) that provide anything of value offensively. Should sign two proper wingers during the summer window, or else it will be bye bye Europe again. Of course Ronny could be criticized for not going 5-3-2 or diamond when he doesn't have decent wingers at his disposal, but I suppose he's been wanting the ones he's got to get game time and to develop (GMS being a huge disappointment in that regard so far).

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Cracking OP btw. Interesting to see the goals again. I agree with those who say that most goals in football comes from someone making an error. But then there are "errors", and there are "major comedy *-ups". Too many of the latter during this European campaign.

 

Despite the fact ronny is clearly a total *, we more times than most get over the line in the spl etc due to us being up against muck most of the time, but when we play in Europe his limitations as a manager are ruthlessly exposed by tems who are well set up tactically by managers who use the head. We are all over the shop in Europe under ronny, this will never change.

 

We were terrible and Ronnys limitations and naivety where there for all, bar the blind, to see.

It's scary that people have made excuses and accepted the horror shows vs Malmo, Molde and Legia.

We used to get put out by the likes of Arsenal and Braga (Europa finalists), but are now worse than many of the European minnows who have budgets many times smaller than ours.

It's embarrassing and not acceptable.

 

* has our budget got to do with anything? Sick of hearing thus spouted like sone gospel of the damned...

We play football, not * Top Trumps! We don't pull into a stadium and say our spend was £8m and your's only £3m so we go through...

The teams that beat us are used to playing teams with bigger budgets and have adapted to survive. that they are successful in this is THEIR credit as much as our fault. Did we just roll over to Barca etc? Or did we strategise and persevere? Don't hear anyone blaming Barca for not just pummelling us... and next time we met they adapted to us.

 

What hasn't it got to do with, its a * massive advantage we have over these teams and we should thus be getting better value for money, if we were managed effectively both at boardroom and managerial level.

The difference is, us beating Barcelona is a shock to many in football terms, and not a regular occurence, whereas us losing to these sides is now commonplace.

It also stands to reason that the more you spend the better the chance you should have. It's not that hard to understand is it?

Fair enough, some teams do defy the odds and beat the big teams but in general the teams with the most money generally triumph, history shows this. Is it really that hard for you to understand.

I'm sick of people thinking our European performances are acceptable.

A defence of Naylor McManus O'Dea Telfer took the eventual winners to extra time in the last 16 of the champions league, we should expect more.

 

Folk throw around the budget response like it's the holy grail of all things football. Losing to teams who can get better return for a couple of million than we can with 8-10 shows that's a false opinion. Like you say, it's not an uncommon occurrence anymore. nor do teams from the EPL win all before them despite dwarfing almost every team in the tournament.

our league is seen as a cash cow for teams/agents, and the only way to stop that is to stop paying what they want until the financial situation rebalances, but if we do that fans go mental. They know we pay, so they demand high. This is NOT a positive for us, it makes us WEAKER than these 'smaller' teams whom we 'outspend' year on year.

Is that hard for YOU to understand?

 

There was a time not so long ago when us beating teams with much bigger budgets was a regular occurrence.

 

Utter drivel.

You failed to address any of the points I made and the spfl is not a cash cow :smiley-laughing002:.

The last team to win the CL outside the big boys was probably Porto and to a lesser extent Inter Milan, but those are rare occurrences, it's happened like twice in 10-15 years. The Premiership is generally won by the big boys Man U, Man City and Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal can't compete as they spend less. This year is a blip down there, normal service will be resumed.

Bayern generally win the German league
PSG generally win the French league
Barca and Real generally win the Spanish league
Porto and Benfica generally win the Portuguese league
Zenit and CSKA generally win the Russian league
Ajax and PSV generally win the Dutch league
Celtic win the Scottish league

^^ the above happens the majority of times I'm sure you'll agree, hence money and budgets are massive factors with the above teams usually the biggest spenders in their leagues.

 

It was easily the 2nd worst since 2000, after Artmedia of course.

Edit: Forgot about being pumped 4-0 by Utrecht in 2010. 3rd worst then but there isn't that much in it.

 

I'm sure Liverpool have spent more than Man Utd in the last 10 years? Positive I read that somewhere.

 

Getting beaten in one off games is completely different than losing a league title over the course of a season against teams with lesser budgets.

 

Don't think anyone could argue we had a good European campaign, but we deserved more points than we got.. The problem performancewise was really Malmo away and the two Molde games. They were unacceptable and we need to avoid that next year. The problem this season has been consistency - we've been excellent at times and then really poor next time.

 

It was good to be able to get a both teams to score on your coupon every game.