Interesting article, some good points and then some almost spiteful one's at the same time.
Are we in agreement that this is where Celtic will always be?
"Gordon believes the Parkhead club's latest transfer indicates that the club have now accepted they will always be Champions League lightweights.
Leigh Griffiths is Celtic’s glass-ceiling signing. An acknowledgement of where they are – and that’s where they’re staying. That for them there is no next level.
Domestic heavyweights, Champions League lightweights. Is Griffiths a good striker? Of course. Good value for money? Yup. Ready to walk straight into the team?
Better than what they’ve already got? Twice more, yup. Can he be developed into a better player the way Gary Hooper was? Definitely. Potential for future profit? See previous answer.
Griffiths ticks all the boxes on Peter Lawwell’s checklist but the real question – is he what Neil Lennon set out looking for when the window opened?
When the boss said Celtic had it in them to push the boat out, to go up a notch, maybe even spend £6million? A man to make a genuine difference in Europe? Not a chance.
Lennon wanted someone closer to being the finished article. From the minute Celtic went out of Europe back in December, the manger talked about it.
Some of it was veiled, some of it overt, some of it a blatant attempt to put pressure on his chief exec in the eyes of the fans to pony up the dough but Celtic have run into brick walls. Either the fee was too high, the wages were too high or both. So what they have done is they’ve settled.
That’s not saying Griffiths is a poor signing. He’s not. I’ll leave the moral judgments on his off-field proclivities to the Peter Perfects who feel the rest of the game is somehow without sin.
But in a football sense he’s talented and predatory enough to become an effective weapon in a good team. Good enough to take them into the last 16 and keep powering through though?
It’s not going to happen. And to be fair, even with an Alfie Finnbogason or a Steven Fletcher, there was little guarantee that could happen. That’s not to say Lennon wouldn’t have liked the opportunity to prove that theory wrong but as it stands he’s going to have to make do with the limit of their ambitions.
Which is to make the group stages, pile up the dough and then hope. In some ways, if this is an acceptance of their upper reach, you have to admire them for acknowledging it.
I remember Falkirk finished seventh in the SPL two years on the bounce and Yogi Hughes persuaded the board there was a “next level” if only we pushed the boat out.
That summer in they all came, half a dozen experienced senior pros all on wages we shouldn’t even have been dreaming of paying.
And in the May? We escaped the drop up at Inverness on the last day of the season thanks to Michael Higdon – and only a run to the Scottish Cup Final spared the club from losing more than £1m that year.
Sadly, they’re still paying for it to this day.
The “next level”? You hear so many managers talk about it, but for most clubs it’s a myth.
Accepting that doesn’t mean you’re not ambitious, it doesn’t mean you’ll ever stop trying to get there. It simply means you’re not prepared to take daft risks trying to force it to happen.
So maybe Lawwell’s right. Maybe a cabinet full of domestic trophies and a balance sheet groaning with UEFA’s cash is as good as it’s ever going to get for Celtic.
Let’s face it, when they did get into the last 16 with a team polished to a sheen by Lennon over two years, they were miles out of their depth anyway.
Losing five to a Juventus team who were arguably one of the weakest in the draw, and who were then pumped out in turn by Bayern Munich.
To bridge that gap would take more than a single striker, more than a spend measure in multiples of seven figures. And the truth is it’s not going to happen.
Lawwell’s next job though is getting the support and manager to accept that as their reality.
And it’s going to be a problem for the chief executive. He has to make the case that a team is grown carefully and organically to keep them on an even keel financially.
And when the Hoops do become accomplished enough to take their performance up a gear, he has to have the trust of the fans that he won’t then get the cartoon pound signs in his eyes and dismantle the team before they have time to prove how good they can actually be.
And while Lawwell may think the club has a glass ceiling, it doesn’t mean the gaffer won’t want to smash his head through and see if there’s anything above it."
Discuss Gordon Waddell: Signing of Leigh Griffiths shows there is no next level for Celtic in the Celtic Chat area at TalkCeltic.net.
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Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2014
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Massive pile of *. Griffiths proves as much about where we are as a club as O'Neill signing Momo Sylla or Strachan signing Keane did.
An individual signing that Lennon clearly believes in, nothing more than that and for Wadlol to attempt to belittle us because of it is laughable even with the patronising act he's attempting to put on. -
We are where we are. I think we are good enough to reach the CL last 16 again Europa League quarters or maybe semis with some luck.
Some our of buys are Wanyamas and Van Dijks, some of them are Banguras. It is what it is.
I genuinely think we're on the way up though. We'll have bumps but I think we're steadier than we have been in decades - possibly ever. The only difference and downside is the rest of football has jumped so far ahead of us it makes us look bad.
Jock Stein created and coached a brilliant team but he was also fighting on a relatively even playing field. It is sadly literally impossible for that success to ever be repeated - by any club.
Everyone sucks Barcelona off for their youth academy and they do deserve praise - but let's not kid ourselves and think that Messi, Xavi and Iniesta would have stuck around for 5k a week. -
We struggled when we brough Mcdonald in from Motherwell as well right enough. Those two last 16 years where a struggle.
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ILoveTheCeltic
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Gordon Waddles a * "St Mirren fan" my *. Falkirk actually, a Falkirk fan from Glasgow :56:
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I think we are now in a cycle of selling at least one of our better players every year, probably in the Summer. So we buy the Virgils or Victors of this world in the hope of selling them on within 1 or 2 years. Good enough to win the SPFL but no chance to build a Team for Europe. But that's what happens when our gross annual turnover is as much as Man Utd (reportedly) will get each year from Nike alone. Financially we are punching way above our weight.
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"Are we in agreement that this is where Celtic will always be?"
I don't think it's just where Celtic will always be.
Our goal has always been to get to the Champions League and enjoy the experience. It'd imagine it's the same for top teams in all leagues besides perhaps England, Germany, Spain and Italy. There're always one or two from other leagues that spring a surprise, PSG and Monaco will mix it up a bit in years to come and the Dutch and Portuguese have done well historically but in the here and now the competition basically belongs to a team from one of four nations and, sad as it is, I think the rest of us are happy just to put in a good showing.
The only real chance the rest have at European silverware is probably the unfashionable Europa League, but even then you're hoping sides from the big 4 don't take it seriously and that "dropping down" of CL heavyweights into the EL doesn't happen...rarely can you count on this.
Last year we did well, this time round I thought we were poor but also unlucky in 2 or 3 of the games not to take anything. -
We are never going to win the CL. The best we can hope for is qualification to the group stages and maybe an appearance in the last 16 or an extended run in the Europa League.
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He's actually a smashing guy, I know him well. That being said, he's wide of the mark here imo.
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I'm afraid it's true. Lennon stated he wanted a player in January to bed him in for next seasons European run... Primarily a striker. Griffiths? Nah. Might not even be our starting striker come that time.
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Look this is true like it or lump it
We will never be a CL force ever unless we change leagues which
Will never happen
But so what? We're Celtic FC and no one else is and no one will take that
If you want European glory support another team -
I wouldn't trade our Champions League night for anything. I love the underdog tag.
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Yes The CL nights are very special, given our history and I love them. I really really do
But we're an extra in a hollwood film basically and don't have the talent for a lead role in this show -
the whole set up of the CL means smaller teams ( in terms of finance ) will never have a realistic chance of winning it.
Celtic, playing knock out cup matches over two legs are a match for anyone -- we would always have a chance due to special nights at Paradise.
Too many non champions from strong leagues and a system designed to ensure that it stays that way... for me a cup should always be knock out not league -
Don Corleone
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Yes, that is a dumb person with a bad opinion.
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Like to admit it or not I think he is right.
Our typical targets have fell from unwanted epl players, to good championship players, to fringe championship players, to league 1 players that aren't consider crucial to those teams.
We are in a very unique position where we are guaranteed a shot at the champions league each year and at worst we will only be a couple of really tough games away from qualification. At best, like this season, we only need to beat teams from Kazakhstan.
So we are very much in limbo. We don't need to sign anyone to win the league and we will never win the champions league. So our strategy seems to be based on scraping into the groups as cheaply as possible while selling of our best talent when possible. My issue is that I really don't think this is sustainable and we are only one tough draw away from not qualifying. We scraped by this year but take forster and maybe van dijk out that team and we are going to struggle. For me it is a far bigger risk than just spending to try and improve or at the very least stay the same.
So yes, the signing of Griffiths really demonstrates where we are at and where our ambition lies. The bigger debate is whether we are right to have this level of ambition. -
Never say never but it's very unlikely we'll ever be a force, playing in this league. There's no reason why we can't become Last 16 or quarter final regulars though. Olympiacos, Benfica, Porto & Ajax have shown it can be done with domestic limitations (APOEL reaching the quarter finals shows how much of a factor the luck of the draw is). Our record at home for a club with our finances is pretty special. If we improve to a point where we can edge out results away, we've always got a chance.
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I don't know what the point of bringing money in is if we never see its benefits.
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Arsenal shows that they are a lightweight club because they just signed Källström. What a load of *.
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Don Corleone
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Amazing that the signing of Griffiths causes this reaction and the signing of the unknown Icelandic striker was greated with "could be a hidden gem!".
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