Good to see the fans clapping before the match

true but its broadly correct. Apart from far left and really staubch republicans I have never heard even a passing comment on remembrance in the UK. That little lot surely dont even get near 10% of the population. I am sorry but if you are making a collective policy decision and more than 90% want something and 10% dont then the 90% get their wish.

 

so paddy mccourt would have to wear it?


lets not forget what happened in derry in 72..

 

It's not for all combatants. It's everyone who suffered or died in ALL the wars. People will remember who they want to remember then. I wouldn't be remembering SS troops, I'd be remembering my grandfather who was machine gunned at the Somme and who fought in the Irish War of Independence and my uncle Pat who was at Dunkerque.

 

I think in Europe most countries want to stay distinct and not blandly homogernise so as not to offend. Everything will offend someone. People want a France that is basically French, a Spain that is regognisably Spanish, a Scotland that is Scottish etc. Try to turn us into blank entities that are basically labour exchanges and there will be huge trouble. Most European countries still have a hugely dominant single group who consider themselves indigenous. Scotland is if I remember right still 98% white European, about 85% of which is from a protestant background. I think in Poland 90-odd % are ethnic Poles. I am sure thats true of Spain, Scandinavia etc.

Where a country is overwhelmingly mono-cultured they will not neutralise everything so as not to offend 3 or 4% of the population. This was the subject of a discussion on a tour I was on with Europeans of several types (Swiss, Norwegans etc) and they all felt that way, actually to a degree that made me a bit uncomfortable because the UK as a whole is a bit more pluralistic due to very multi-ethnic nature of SE England. However, within an hour or so drive west of London you are in a different entirely white mono-cultured world of the villages and small towns of middle England where nothing ever changes.

 

Yeah nobody says individuals should be forced to but they do have to respect the wishes of 90-odd% who do and not disrupt. Would you accept that you cant expect to be able to openly celbrate fighting the very country that you live in and are a citizen of. Would the use of openly pro-Al Quieda songs and symbols pass peacefully in an American stadium? Do you agree that it would usually end up with open strife and hate if that was done. I ask because some Celtic fans think the local equivelent is OK and act amazed when most disagree.

 

No but every country insists that anti-itself fighting is not openly celebrated on its own turf lest huge open strife kick off. There is no comparison between facilitating commemoration of those who fought for your country and those who fought against it. Does any country do the latter?? Why should the UK.

 

I was really interested in what happened today. I am away at work and didnt want the situation to turn bad for Celtic.

I dont wear a poppy, I never have and probably never will. I dont see the problem thoug with giving rememberance to those who died so we could sit and have these "worthwhile" arguments. I dont agree with the way the Iraq war was started. I do think of the people who are over there fighting and have lost their lives. How many do you think were Celtic fans? How do you think the Celtic fans that you see sending their photos into Nuts, Zoo and Soccer AM feel when they have to try an dexplain their fellow fans actions towards them?

No player today was forced to wear the poppy. No one. Any player there could have said no. It may have caused major hassle but they could have stood by their beliefs. Now, some might say that they would have been forced not to play and out of the club. Can you imagine the grief that would have caused Celtic? They would have been villified from Scotland to Japan and back again.

I have seen that there is a few trying to draw comparisons between supporting rememberance day and supporting the IRA. You have to remember that the IRA is a terrorist organisation. It is outlawed in the very country was supposed to be liberating.

Celtic do allow supporting of our Irish heritage. Does anyone listen to any songs that get played at CP? Let the people sing? Is this not a song that embraces Irish culture and heritage? It gets played before most games and is sung loads, there is never an outcry about it from the board. Sing about the terrorist organisation that is the IRA however and they will speak out. And rightly so.

I will agree with other sthat have said if you dont like rememberance day or the poppy then go and demonstrate somewhere were it will make a difference. All these actions do is make us look like Rangers fans tbh. We are trying to be a grown up club and prove that we are better than them, but these actions today are terrible.

 

I also dont agree with the flag getting taken by the stewards. I dont think anything will come of it though. Ifr it does then that is something really worth getting hot and bothered about. So if you get banned then let us all know and we can all try and help.

I thnk though that the stewards will have been told by their bosses to act as if they have some control after Wedensday night. The bosses of the stewarding company will be crapping it incase they get kicked into touch (even if they are Celtic stewards)

 

Am going around in circles now so let me just summarise before I GO

1. The club had to respect the decision to collectively do the remembrance stuff. If there was a vote we would have been in a minority of 1.
2. If we hadnt done the remembrance stuff we would not only be in a minority of 1 club but we would have been placing the wishes of the minorty of our own fans above the majority of our own fans,.
3. IMO the players should not have been involved and it then would have been entirely voluntary.
4. This is not a political issue for I would guess 90% or more of the Scottiish population, including a majority of our fans. Its only a political issue for the Irish fans and a small hardcore of local republicans.
5. Other than the players wearing poppies (which was questionable) nobody was forced to do anything.
6. You cant compare (on British soil) the celebration of those who fought for the country (generally the relatives and ancesors of the local fans) and those who fought against it. That is just denail of a universal rule of common sense because it doesnt suite.

over and out

 

The only flags that should be lifted (both us and Rangers) are ones with references to or symbols of paramilitary organisations or sectarian references.

 

No, that's what I've been arguing actually... that no politics whether it be IRA chanting or poppy-wearing should be in sports. The only sport in America that allows it is NFL because there are absolutely no foreign fans that attend the matches (not 10% or anything, literally zero), and even then they don't make the players wear pins or anything, despite the US being one of the most Patriotic and insulated countries in the world.

I reiterate I'm not against a minute's applause for those who choose to support the cause, or even fans coming in wearing poppies. I oppose the wearing of poppies by the players unless they clearly volunteer (as the fans do) to do it.

 

Dammit, I was on the phone the entire time you were rebutting. :icon_mrgreen:

 

We've all been arguing the same point, it's just that a lot of people, and I don't mean Keltoi, have chosen to ignore the questions we have been asking because they are so blinded that they don't want to consider the other side's argument.

 

There are may ways of looking at this situation Henke and this one about freedom of choice is an angle I have not looked from personally i can never remember wearing one.It should not be compulsary to wear one its a personal decision.After reading the leaflet yesterday handed out at the match it was clear to me that the main reason for the walk out was based on John Reid being our chairman , the troubles in Northern Ireland and the funding of the British Army which to me was pretty petty the fact that only around 100 people mainly kids walked out said it all in that not even 1%of the supporters where in agreement with the protesters views and actions on the matter.

 

i agree mate, its a disgrace, there was no need to wear the poppies yesterday, john reid is the culprit, he's the one who told us to leave politics at the door..

I have two season books(wasnt at the game yesterday) and i wont be renewing them

 

seriously it getting to the point that the 5 of us are thinking about giving up our tickets. we cant sing we cant stand up ffs we cant even be proud ofour roots ffs celtic is in the wrong hands
REID GET TO *!

 

Well done to everyone who clapped my would sicken me to know if Celtic fans where to ruin it because my Great Grandad died in WW1

 

100% Agree!!
Looking at the papers this morning with pics of the players in that top,felt like a kick in the teenth.Never thought id see the day!!Big * you to John Reid Hypocrite bastasd!!Your gona split the support up & what for? so that you can still look good in the eyes of the british goverment!!
Just wondering why not all clubs in the Epl didnt have them on(man utd included)We just backed down to media attention & forgot our roots!!

 

I think some people criticizing the protesters have forgotten why we protested:

And to the people posting here saying they might not go back or hand in their season ticket (including me) this is exactly what JR wanted, in under a year, he's split up a once proud support, a support with probably one of the best comradeship worldwide, now look at us, being told to leave politics at the door, unless it's pro-British.

To quote the late great Tommy Burns:
"When you pull on that jersey you're not just playing for a football club, you're playing for a people and a cause"

Not if JR's in charge ffs...

 

this is the last straw for reid i think ffs our own fans are arguing with each other over this *. surely the whole board must have thought that this would cause an uproar or was that their plan