Good to see the fans clapping before the match

I agree with that. Especially in the south, really dedicated republicans are * rare and definately seen as odd. I think a good measure of the popularity of overt republicanism is the Sinn Fein vote. Its very small in the south and what little there is is mainly concentrated not too far from the northern Ireland border area (Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan, Louth, Sligo) and a bit of an overspill from the north. Regardless of origins Fianna Fail do not like the sort of republicanism we are talking about.

 

But these pubs are not forcing their staff to wear symbols of British colonialism, are they?
Do you really believe that an American barman of Irish descent would wear a poppy if his boss told him he had too?
The Irish in Scotland are being shat on here.
If it was a club who's roots lay in Pakistan or any other foreign country then the PC brigade would be up in arms if they were forced to wear something they didn't believe in. But because it's only the Irish, feelings don't seem to matter. This has been the attitude of the British establishment for centuries, but I didn't think I'd ever witness it being the attitude of fellow Celtic supporters.

 

One is OK in the UK and the other is OK in the Republic of Ireland. Neither are wanted in the other country. In each country, people want to celbrate who fought for the country not who fought against the country. Its the same the world over. Dont expect that to ever change.

 

i woundrt care as long as it was in Ireland. Celebration of fighting the UK is fienin Ireland, and probably OK everywhere but the UK. In the UK it would be stupid and bordering on incitement. Place matters a great deal. Just go to northern Ireland and see what happens when you have competing ideas on what wars should be celebrated in the same bit of ground. Its ugly and we dont need that.

BTW I do agree with you about the players. They are far too multinational. However, regarding the fans, the club was only doing what the rest of the country did re: clapping. It would have been wrong to set us apart from the rest based on the wishes of a small minority.

 

The problem is most Scottish tims happily mark this time of year because of family and community experiences in UK wars. Believe it or not but it would be considered really really shocking and would have made Celtic pariahs if they had been the one club to refuse. You have to go with the majority and if every club in Scottish football (including others with Irish roots like Hibs) say yes and only we say no we have to accept the near-unanimous majority. One club couldnt stop all the others.

 

Celtic could have avoided splitting the support by simply wearing a WHITE poppy.

 

Thats too strong. They do care but the wishes of all the other clubs to do this had to prevail and it was in line with the wishes of the vast majority of our own fans. Would it have been OK to not have this remembrance stuff if the entire population of over 4 million wanted it and about four thousand didnt. Thats not far off the reality.

 

im sorry but blind patriotism causes most wars..

and simply wearing something just to show solidarity to a national army just to feel accepted is just that.. blind patriotism.

 

I'm sure a person of your stature can back these figures up as fact. I mean, far be it for me to assume you just plucked the figures out of thin air.

 

GLASGOW Celtic the word GLASGOW and the fact that we play in the SPL should be enough to say.We own a dept to those who fought in the world wars to make us who we are.Mon the hoops

 

face the facts the poppeys dont benefit those who faught in the world wars.

all from ww1 are dead and 95+% from WW2 are dead.


These poppeys benefit those who fought in ireland, falklands, to iraq.

 

Celtic does not have 4 million fans in Scotland... I'd wager that there are just as many fans of Celtic in Ireland than there are in Scotland... granted the most connected (and rightly so) typically come from Glasgow. I just think you are severely overestimating the Scottish support and underestimating the Irish support. While we try to depoliticize the club from extremism, it's impossible to escape the fact that Celtic now has the strongest multi-cultural connections ever since Hibernian basically stopped caring about their history. I'm NOT saying we should pander to the Irish fans, and I am the first to agree that sometimes they get a little too nationalistic in terms of their support, but even the very rational fans are uneasy with this.

I wouldn't go that far... is supporting my father, his stepdad, my grandfather, and my great-grandfather who have faught in successive wars on Veteran's day blind patriotism? I'm not opposed to wearing the poppy I'm just opposed to bringing it into football.

 

Another one who is missing the issue here.

 

As far as I can make out the vast majority of the fans (mainly at least part Irish descended) are pretty happy with this. Its just the minority of the minority represENted by visitors from Ireland (whose I respect not wearing/clapping) and local zealots that have a problem. It would be wrong for one club to stop this going ahead as a uniform gesture and it would be wrong for a small minority of that clubs fans to prevail over the majority of its fans who dont have a huge problem with it. You are really talking about a few thousand against the entire population of Scotland. It would be grossly unfair to make decisions in favour of the tiny group who really have a big problem with this. However, wearing poppies has always happened and clapping is voluntary. I wouldnt have extended it to non-UK players though. That was the only non-voluntary and innapropriate aspect of it all.

 

not at all.. the question is would you get mad at Vietnamese people living in America not supporting your father on veteran's day?

thats what this argument is.. about the irish people in ireland or the scottish who identify as irish not wanting to support the british troops.

 

I just think that when you don't have a completely homogeneous population you should stay away from nationalistic expressions. There is America-worshipping galore in the NFL, a little less in the NBA, and basically none at all in MLS or the NHL. It's just that when you have so many people of different creeds involved with the club it's too much to ask them to participate in an event like this.

And I don't think my previous statement was too strong. The club is all to quick to exploit its Irish roots with touring and stuff to make money, but if the Irish fans are offended I genuinely don't think they care.

 

Not at all... and that's actually a much better analogy than my Russian one. I just took your statement of blind patriotism to be any showing of pride on days like Veteran's day. We are in agreement that different nationalities shouldn't have to support another's "Military remembrance day" whatever they may be called.

 

I dont want a remebrance symbol for all combatants because that would include the SS, the Einstagruppen death squads etc

 

I dont want a poppey that represents only the british army...

so why do you get to choose? because you live in scotland? celtic is based in scotland?


what happened to celtic being all inclusive.. check that at the door unless its british is the mentality of celtic these days

 

At last. You are seeing my point.