Do the board deserve credit for this transfer window??

Can you explain this? I genuinely don't understand. O'Riley was not deadwood.

 

I was seperating the sales of the deadwood and O'Riley as I wasn't sure which you were referring to.

 

I was answering your post about buying first and selling the deadwood after that.

 

Then ignore the part about Engels and O'Riley.

 

OK. So ignoring that part:

That's not how negotiations work.

 

The other club already knows these are players we are not using and have no intention of using, hence the deadwood tag, bringing in other players changes that fact not a jot, so wouldn't have an apreciable impact on the negotiations.

You clearly think it would, I don't, which is fine. I doubt we'll change each others mind on it.

 

I think we are slowly sleep walking into a big rebuild in terms of the first team again. Where I am delighted to keep CCV, Hatate and Kyogo, I think come next season all three will be looking to go. I think you can add to that Alastair Johnston being ready to move on, McGregor will be another year on and Forrest might be calling it a day, Schmeichel too.

Where I do think we have signed some exciting players the time it took to get Bernardo and Idah in was poor. Also a left back and left centre back could have been signed well ahead of this week.

We have done well moving on players we wanted to go and the overall squad size had to come down but we still have Bernabei, Kwon, Tilio, Lagerbielke and Nawrocki at least to get moved on when their loans are up for the most part.

Time will tell whether this is our new way forward or not. When you include the Abada sale we made about £13m profit on player trading with the potential of that rising to over £20m.

 

I think there are several differences, mostly to do with what clubs think versus what they know.

First of all, there's knowing and there's knowing. You might strongly suspect that a player has no future at the club and you can use that to your advantage if you are skillful; but that's not the same as knowing it for sure. Witness the difference between how the negotiations went for Bernardo (were we knew for certain he had no future at Benfica due to the option we had) and Idah (where we were pretty convinced but they put up smokescreens about the new manager wanting to see his players).

Secondly, there's having no future at a club and there's having no future at a club. Nothing says no future at all like literally having an upgrade already signed.

Thirdly, clubs will be well aware that we won't want to be lumbered with an unecessary extra wage for at least 6 months when the window shuts and consequently will be more desperate to sell before the window closes. Again, if you haven't already bought the replacement, it's possible to argue that you need the current player as backup. This is credible because it does sometimes happen: look at how we refused Lagerbielke his loan because Welsh got injured last January.

 

As I said, I doubt we are going to change each others mind on it, and I think we'll just end up arguing in circles.

 

The next window will tell us a lot in terms of how we approach the LW position and upgrading the depth at CB.

 

You haven't even tried to change mine. Give it a try, I'm not against having my mind changed. I was even actually a bit nervous posting what I did (although it's genuinely how I see it), as I'm no expert on anything to do with business and I'm sure there must be holes and inconsistencies in my argument due to lack of knowledge.

Maybe my opening of "that's not how negotiations work" was a bit arrogant. I probably should have said that I personally don't think negotiations work that way. Anyway, it should be clear by now that I don't know any more than you do about these things, so feel free to tell me why you think I'm wrong.

 

Not for me. We’ve acted like amateurs again. We should never be waiting until the last minute to get our players in. Identify them, pay the going rate and sign them. We wait and wait then the selling club knows we need players and the price goes up. The manager could have been doing with the reinforcements weeks ago, before we went on tour to bed them in. We are a shambles, the structure and who is responsible needs a complete overhaul.

 

Did want a winger but I can also make a case why Palma, Nawrocki and even Holm need a shot this year. Sink or swim time.

 

Realistically I think we can assume almost every foreign player coming to celtic is doing so to move on after a few years in they are good enough. That's the model for most teams and for it to work we need to just try and maximise the value we get from these guys, win stuff with their help, and wish them the best when they move on.

The most important thing is creating a structure that can support that model without relying on a single person. Our managers are likely only to stick around for a few years as well. So we cannot keep depending on an Ange or a Rodgers to come in, run the whole show, and leave only for us to have to rebuild from scratch. We need a player scouting, signing, and development structure that remains in place once a star signing or a star manager moves on. We clearly don't have that yet.

 

OK, @Lupis I'll respect your preference and agree to disagree. Sorry if I was too pushy.

 

Sounds like a breakup text ffs

 

Getting the structure sorted in time for January is the most important thing..

We will also only likely get this season and next under Rodgers..

The succession plan needs to start now, whilst Rodgers is here to help implement what's needed.

 

Rodgers next move will likely be a mid table la liga club with a bit of money to spend.

I think hes done with the epl.

But you are right, hes gone in 2 seasons minimum. Hes far too ambitious to stay in Scotland, and he'll want more than domestic trophies on his CV when he does.

Hes trying to build something that can reverberate around corridors in Europe.

We'll know this time next year if the Dermot Desmond has changed his tune, and whether there is such a thing as forward planning at this football club that goes beyond a rainy day fund that facilitates board bonuses.

 

Probably depends on how we do in Europe. I think if we can at least get to the playoffs he might be tempted to stick around. That's a pretty decent level to manage at and probably comparable to low/mid level EPL or la liga as regards a draw for managers. If we flop again I expect he will want to do something else in a year or two.

 

This is it.

Rodgers, probably like every Celtic fan, looked at Sevcos run and said "*? All i needed was a bit more, just a bit more".
Hes probably looked at the likes of copenhagen, psv and a few other teams and wondered * is happening.

Hes taken on the job with, what i assume, are guarantees about a higher level of investment.

But that will only last as long as Rodgers is there.

This is where @JC Anton hit the nail on the head... What do they do when Rodgers inevitably leaves? Revert back? Invest in a higher caliber of manager? Etc etc.

Or Ronny Deila and downsizing?

We'll see over the next few windows, what planning is in place. What scouting networks are created. What roles do Lawwell and Nicholsen actually have etc.