Daniel Cummings

So what do you think happens?

 

Warranted how? By scoring goals in the Lowland League? Behave. If you put Adam Idah in that league, he’d score for fun too.

It’s not the lad’s fault, but the jump between the B team and the first team is absolutely enormous. If Brendan (and the wider coaching team) are seeing the lad in training with actual professional footballers and don’t think he merits the game time then we have to trust that.

 

I have no idea, but I doubt we have no youth worth a shot in the team, Turley, Cummings, Bonnar have all made benches, so they just be showing something but why not give them a shot at the team, we had 1 for winger last week and the only youth to get the bench was a striker who didn't get on over Kenny (I like Kenny not complaining that he got game time)

Ajax can do it, Barca can do it, Bayern can do it, City can do it. How can't we give gametime to our academy prospect's?

We need at least 4 in the squad of we want to make full use of a euro squad, Forrest hasn't got many seasons left, McGregor is getting on a bit, Welsh is away and Ralston is a good squad option.

 

Not a lot to go on but watched him in the UEFA youth league games this season and looks a decent finisher obviously but his all round game looked pretty average. Rodgers doesn't seem too hot on him either from the little he spoke about him.

 

[QUOTE="Can'tbehooped, post: 7815097, member: 48344"]I have no idea, but I doubt we have no youth worth a shot in the team, Turley, Cummings, Bonnar have all made benches, so they just be showing something but why not give them a shot at the team, we had 1 for winger last week and the only youth to get the bench was a striker who didn't get on over Kenny (I like Kenny not complaining that he got game time)

Ajax can do it, Barca can do it, Bayern can do it, City can do it. How can't we give gametime to our academy prospect's?

We need at least 4 in the squad of we want to make full use of a euro squad, Forrest hasn't got many seasons left, McGregor is getting on a bit, Welsh is away and Ralston is a good squad option.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, none of us know what goes on in the training field and who merits what and some making the bench shows that some are making inroads but maybe not enough for starts in the first team, I don't think it is or needs to be any more complicated than that. The alternative is that the management team are actively preventing young players who are good enough to start from doing so.

You mentioned teams who have the most elite youth academies and have an abundance of talent in their youth systems, unfortunately we don't compare to that level and is an unfair comparison, if we had even a quarter if the talent that one of these youth teams have I think they'd likely all be getting game time. The prospect for young players playing in Scotland compared to the leagues above is night and day, which is why we lose talent to Bayern and Liverpool etc.

I agree we need to try and get youth into the team but it needs to be on merit, as a club we are hamstrung by the league and the format to bridge the gap between youth and senior football but that said our youth team can't even win the lowland league never mind beat seasoned professionals in the Scottish premiership.

 

Definitely needs some sort of game time.

There's no reason why when we're 3 up with 20 to go or 4 up at half time to not give players a run out.

We have no one breaking through. That's happened for a long time.

There are two reasons for this.

1. We're unwilling to give youth a chance.

Hard to argue that we are when a youngster comes in on a rare appearance, performs and is never seen again.

2. They're not good enough.

What's the point of having the team and ploughing money into the facilities? It's hard to believe we're not producing talent when talent is leaving. They're not given a chance but go on to have chances at a higher/similar level.

It's shocking for whatever reason. There are chances for youngsters to play throughout the season that are constantly missed.

 

So we just scrap the youth then? * it doesn’t matter if you can score goals just cause it’s the league you play in.

May as well never sell another player for good money cause we play in the Scottish league too.

Or the fact Rodgers has spent 9 million on him and will keep trying instead of giving someone else a go…… not like it never happened before when a manager has brought someone in for big money and stuck by them and it’s failed.

 

As a club, we need to find a way to better bridge the gap between the first team and B team. Whether that’s managing to push the B team further up the leagues (which currently we’re hitting a wall with) or making better use of loaning young players, we need to do something differently.

Would genuinely be interested in how often you’ve watched Cummings play a full game. I’m quite sure Brendan will have seen more. If you’re going purely off stats, Cameron Elliott at East Kilbride has as many goals as Cummings this season. Should we be signing him? Of course not. Cummings has three (probably actually four including Maeda) strikers ahead of him in the pecking order just now and we play a one striker system. His game time reflects that.

Your second paragraph is nonsense. Our players are proven in Europe and that’s what contributes massively to the transfer fees we manage to bring in. Even domestically, they’re playing in a top 15 European professional league; it’s hardly comparable to the Lowland League.

Whether Rodgers continues to persevere with Idah remains to be seen. He’s clearly decided that both Idah and Kenny are more deserving of game time than Cummings though.

 

Our youth players are going to teams we are far superior to in the main.

If they are good enough for us, they’ll play.

Ben Doak was good enough and was getting game time at the age of 16 including against Rangers. He decides to go to Liverpool, fair enough. But he’s the anomaly here.

We’d absolutely obliterate the likes of Watford, Millwall and Bayern B etc, whom some of our prospects are leaving for. They’re hardly leaving and getting a game for Barcelona.

 

Exactly, none of us know what goes on in the training field and who merits what and some making the bench shows that some are making inroads but maybe not enough for starts in the first team, I don't think it is or needs to be any more complicated than that. The alternative is that the management team are actively preventing young players who are good enough to start from doing so.

You mentioned teams who have the most elite youth academies and have an abundance of talent in their youth systems, unfortunately we don't compare to that level and is an unfair comparison, if we had even a quarter if the talent that one of these youth teams have I think they'd likely all be getting game time. The prospect for young players playing in Scotland compared to the leagues above is night and day, which is why we lose talent to Bayern and Liverpool etc.

I agree we need to try and get youth into the team but it needs to be on merit, as a club we are hamstrung by the league and the format to bridge the gap between youth and senior football but that said our youth team can't even win the lowland league never mind beat seasoned professionals in the Scottish premiership.[/QUOTE]
I can give plenty of examples of clubs that are a lower level than those that get regular youth coming in as well. I fail to believe that there is not any talent worth a chance in our squad. For all the time Yang has been given with little output there must be someone in our academy.

Aye, we keep losing out because other clubs in richer leagues can pay more, so we need to work harder to make it viable for our youth to stay at us. If I were 16 and talented at football I'd leave because there's no clear pathway to the first team, seeing some people get a few games when the clubs panicking that they'll leave for just a development fee isn't inspiring.


If they are truly *, then the academy needs ripped up and rebooted, as the top club in the country we should have a talent factory.

And aye, you, I or anyone else here isn't going to fix it, that's well beyond us but we like complaining, it's the national pass time

 

The whole youth system in this country is joke..

The B League doesn't work for us..

We need to try and lead the way for a total revamp on the way things are done.

I started a thread a while ago about trying to bring back a Premiership reserve league or something similar..

 

The only player I think we’ll really regret not giving more of a chance is Vata. At the point he was looking promising too he definitely could have been

 

We have the most elite youth academy in Scotland. Plus, the ability to pinch players from all the other academies. If we can't find and develop the best youths to be first team players, then that would mean no one in Scotland could. I'm not buying it.

Scotland have reached 2 major tournaments and got to the playoff of another in recent times. This is hard evidence that Scotland has the talent. They are being given a chance elsewhere and turned into internationals.

We need to take some accountability.

 

That’s the way to go but out with maybe 4 teams the rest can’t afford it. The old reserve league was great for various reasons and would be great now but not sure it could work here. An idea would maybe be to set one up with English teams but not sure about the legalities of how that would work between FA’s.

 

We could fund it with a sliding scale of contributions from the clubs finishing position in the league, with the promoted club paying nothing.. we need to try something as running out at Civil Service etc, isn't getting us anywhere.. and not just us we're not producing anywhere near enough young talent..

We should be at the forefront of change.

 

I’ve replied in bold. Same old *, you have a different opinion and then try and turn and twist things and don’t like it when it’s pointed out.

 

The Lowland League and the Champions League are the same? Okay. I’ve never suggested we should pack in the youth team, I’ve suggested we need to find a solution to bridging the chasm to the first team.

I see you conveniently ignored my point on how often you’ve actually watched Cummings play. That’s what makes the comparison to Cameron Elliott valid - you’re going off stats alone. So yes, “turning and twisting” things to highlight that your view on Cummings isn’t exactly well formed isn’t really unfair.

 

Portsmouth are keen on Celtic striker Daniel Cummings.

The Championship club are exploring the possibility of a pre-contract agreement with the 18-year-old, with his current deal expiring in the summer.

It’s understood Portsmouth would want Cummings to be part of their first-team squad.

Celtic have yet to formally offer him a new contract.

Cummings has been monitored by clubs all over Europe and the English Premier League

 

Great move for him if he goes there. Shows true ambition too

 

Really hope the lad decides to stay and gets a new contract sorted pronto. With Kyogo going there's a proper opportunity for him to move up the pecking order quickly if he shows Brendan he's committed to the club.

Obviously we'll go into the market for a new striker but who knows how long it'll take them to settle and establish themselves as the clear first choice. Meanwhile the chance is there for the taking, Cummings has had a breakout year at the club and with confidence high he could make it difficult for Brendan to leave him out if he gets his chance (which I honestly believe he would) and takes it. At the end of the day he's clearly developing here and I'm sure the idea of playing, scoring and winning trophies for Celtic has had an impact on him getting this far so really hope he backs himself to make it here. At the end of the day if he does establish himself here the club will give him a big wage rise quickly anyway (we've been doing that since Ange came through the door). Have no doubt he could get a higher instant payday but things would probably even themselves out within a few years anyway.

Know folk will probably point to Doak and Vata doing well in te Championship as a reason to go but honestly believe if they had both stayed they'd be in as a good a position with us as they currently are, if not better. I'd even go as far as saying that if Doaks had stayed he'd have top end English/European clubs looking at bringing him in for big money as an actual first teamer rather than the likes of Ipswich trying to get him off Liverpool after a good loan spell at Boro. Plus if he doesn't get the gametime he would like he can always go in the summer and get the same money he would signing a pre contract as it's not like we keep players around if they don't want to be here.

Would absolutely love to see a youngster come through (especially a striker) and have a King Kenny sort of career. Ie. Back themselves and make themselves a hero here then go and make themselves a legend at one of the very top clubs. Suppose the club can take credit for Virgil doing just that and suspect big Wanyama and KT would've done similar had it not been for injuries. I mean the fact KT is knocking back bigger offers elsewhere to back shows there's nothing quite like Celtic.

Haven't even seen a great deal of him but from what I have saw he looks like the a Rodgers sort of striker and one he could defo develop assuming he's got the right attitude/focus etc.