Daily Mail Brands the Welsh "Taliban"

Too long, didn't read?

I thought about deleting them, but sometimes people just have to put some effort in, even in this day and age.

 

The irony of all of this is that Welsh is a direct descendent of the native tongue of Britain (as indeed is Cornish).

The name 'Wales' is derived from the Anglo-Saxon 'Waelisc', meaning foreginer, and was used by the Germanic Anglo-Saxon invaders to describe the native Britons.

I'm not English, yet I speak it as my first language. It doesn't sit very well with me, as I know how my ancestors came to speak it - and it certainly wasn't out of curiosity. They were simply forced to, like the Scottish Gaels.

 

The good thing is that it works the other way as well - you can learn Irish and thereby reverse the process. It's easier now than ever.

 

Did Irish at school, and last year went back and got my level 2, plus my fáinne airgid.

At the moment I'm studying a HND/Degree in music, so after that I can dedicate more time to my Gaeilge.

 

Comhghairdeas mo chara! Ta sin iontach maith. Ca mhead bhliain? Agus cad e nios deacra faoin Ghaeilge i do thuairim?

 

I was taught French at school and to be honest it's not really helped me out. If anything Spanish is arguably more important seeing as it's probably spoken by more people than the other European languages.


In regards to Gaelic, Welsh and similar languages I think that the reason they don't seem to be a part of most schools curriculum (at least in the case of Gaelic in Scotland, I don't know about Welsh in Welsh schools) is down to the fact they have such a limited use. Also im pretty sure schools have to teach one other European language due to the UK being in the EU whereas there's no similar rule for the Gaelic language in Scotland.


I've lived in Scotland all my life and I honestly don't think I've ever met a single person who knows more than the odd phrase in Gaelic. I personally just think that other than to say I can speak the same language as my ancestors, there's not enough reason for me to learn it; no offence to anyone who does speak these languages.

 

they do teach Gaelic in some scottish schools. And if saving a language from extinction isnt worthwhile i dont know what is

 

As far as I know (our Welsh posters must correct me if I'm wrong) there are two types of school in Wales, according to medium of instruction: English language and Welsh language. However, Welsh is learnt as a subject by all pupils in English language schools, just as English is learnt as a subject by all pupils in Welsh language schools.

In Scotland there are schools in Glasgow, Highland council area and the Western Isles (or, to give them their official - and Gaelic - name, na h-Eileanan an Iar) that have Gaelic as the medium of instruction or which have Gaelic as a subject. As far as I know the number of schools offering this is increasing.

If you go to the Western Isles you will meet many Gaelic speakers - it is the majority language there, and is especially predominant on islands like Beinn nam Faoghla (Benbecula) and Barraigh (Barra). There are loads of Celtic supporters on Barraigh and I've lost count of how many times I've seen Celtic supporters from Barraigh on Celtic fora - we probably have a few members from there on here.

It is of course up to you if you want to learn Gaelic or any other language for that matter but it doesn't take long before threads like this degenerate into socio-linguistic cliches about certain languages being better, more useful or more "alive" than others.

 

You do realise there is no such thing as a mongolot Welsh speaker? Every welsh speaker is bilingual and therefore fluent in English. Being bilingual is surely advantageous than just having one language

 

As regards the daily mail, I have always seen it in the same vein as the Sun, Record, Mirror, Star, etc. It is just daft nonsense that I can never take any offence at.

As regards the subject, I think it only makes sense that Welshmen can speak fluent English. And if there was a choice between one other language I would personally chose to learn Mandarin or Spanish as I think it will serve you better in life. But at the same time, why make a choice? There are plenty of nations that bring their kids up to be multi-lingual so why not learn various languages at a young age. I do not see the need to pick one over the other.

AmmanVJ, I am completely ignorant of the history of the Welsh language so I have a question if you dont mind. Has Welsh always been spoken throughout Wales? Was it a nationwide language that has become marginalised or has it only existed in pockets around the country? It has always annoyed me a bit in Scotland that people refer to the need to learn Gaelic as it is the language of Scotland, when it never was. It has always just been one of many and to my knowledge never a majority language.

 

Apologies if you thought I was implying that the language wasn't worthwhile as that wasn't my intention and I do realise that Gaelic is taught schools. It's nice to see that people still care about things such as ensuring that older languages don't die out.

I was probabally exaggerating slighty in my last post about the use of Gaelic in modern Scotland, I am aware that there are schools for native Gaelic speakers (Im pretty sure there's one in Glasgow). I think as you suggested yourself the reason that I personally haven't had much contact with people who do speak Gaelic is due to the fact that I've never really been anywhere where it's common. BBC Alba and when they used to show Bob the Builder on BBC 1 in Gaelic back when I was a wee boy are about the only times where I've actually heard the language being spoken fluently.

It's good to see that Gaelic is being taught in more schools, but on a personal level if I was still at school and it was available I probably wouldn't choose to learn it (or any other language) simply because I lack the capacity for it. Im certainly envious of people that can speak another language as it's a good talent to have, but as hard as I try it's just something I can never get the hang of.

I was actually in two minds whether or not to write my last post as I know how passionately some people feel about things such as this, but I certainly wouldn't suggest that someone who speaks a language such as Gaelic, Welsh etc are wasting their time simply because it's not as widely used as something like Spanish.

 

It's a sociological myth that some people are somehow inherently better at learning languages than others.

It's a matter of motivation, exposure and willpower. If you find a language you want to learn, if you move out of your comfort zone and into situations where you have no choice but to use that language (for example, move to another country and find a job), and if you keep at it, you will become fluent in any language you wish. It will take time and effort but it will happen.

It really is as simple as that.

 

That's probabaly true, I studied French at school simply because there was no other choice seeing as it was the only one they taught. It isin't really a language that I have an interest in and would have preferred something like Spanish or German.

I was ok at speaking it, I could say the phrases that I would probablly need when communicating with someone who spoke French but not much else.

 

Have you thought about taking up Spanish and German now?

Typically people find it easier and more fun to learn languages once they've left school and the compulsory aspect is removed.

 

Ignoring the fact that Wales borders today are not necessarily the Historic borders of the Welsh people, then yes, at one point Welsh was spoken exclusively by everyone in this part of Britain. In fact the first ever recording of Welsh comes from strathclyde. We refer to that area in Welsh as Yr Hen Ogledd, the Old North. We were cut off from our brothers around 6th century by saxon invasion.

Although the normans did not conquer Wales fully until 1282 they did implant plantations shortly after 1066, the entirety of the border region and most of South Wales becoming Norman owned and thus changing the language to English gradually. Today if you go to parts of Pembrokeshire they sound English and speak almost no welsh. It's an area known as little england beyond Wales.

That being said, the answer in short to your question is yes, essentially all of Wales was welsh speaking. In 1536 that son of a Welshman Henry VIII legally annexed Wales into England thus creating the modern Wales. It also became a legal requirement to speak only welsh. Welsh Law was banned, and English became language of the courts. This Welshman were sentenced to death by judges in language they didn't understand. From then on welsh was marginalised and English became the lingua franca for any welshman who needed to get by.

It reached its zenith during the Victoria era when it was literally beaten out of schoolchildren using a contraption known as the Welsh Not. Welsh ppl thus became ashamed of the language and many parents began to only learn their children welsh. The language was almost extinct in the 50's but has madeva comeback and this is why we are so protective. We have faced down language oppression and it is the last remaining part of our culture.

I live in the aforementioned Y Fro Gymraeg. Welsh Wales. If you walk into a shop here they automatically greet you in Welsh.

 

That's not ridiculous at all. If someone truly believes in * then their faith is obviously going to be more important to them than what language they use to speak. Think about it.

 

I have thought about it and tried to learn a few phrases here and there just in case I ever need them. It's just one of those things that I say i'm going to try and do but never actually get round to doing it.

 

Is that true? Literally every Welsh speaker has no sole reliance on Welsh? I find that hard to believe, if truth be told. There must surely be SOME?

 

* it no one else has said it so I will.....

Surely it should be Taffyban?


Al get me coat...

 

Nope they were quite thorough in making sure Wales, the British Empire first colony would become fully English speaking. Possibly there were rural farmers Welsh only until 19th century but imposed education and Welsh Not sorted that out.

That's not to say that parts of Wales speak, write, dream in Welsh as their first language, your talking about 20% of the population there but all would be bilingual