Confirmed: Tito Villanova to resign

No he didn't. I'd imagine he tried to speak English as clearly as he could to his foreign players. This is where I think people over rate Ferguson. Yes he was successful with Man Utd. But Mourinho for example. As much as I'm not his biggest fan, has been successful in four different countries. He has had to get used to different clubs, cultures, languages etc, something Ferguson has never had to do.

 

Great patter.

 

cant see Ferguson returning to the game as Barca boss

 

Potito, Potata

 

Ferguson is a *.

He was however probably THE best football manager in existence.

 

What being respectful to our club matters when discussing managerial ability I do not know.

As I stated in my post I'm not his biggest fan. It doesn't mean that because you dislike someone you should be biased or unappreciative towards their talents. Yes he cheated my club and I'll always dislike him for it but he is undeniably a phenomenal manager who has had continous success throughout his career in several countries and is only 50 years old.

Ferguson enjoyed great longevity but who is to say Mourinho won't have that as well? As good a manager as Ferguson was he didn't have the challenge of adapting to different cultures, languages, styles of football etc and I'm not sure he would be held in the same regard if he had gone on to manage a foreign team after say 8 years at Man Utd.

Edit - and if you read my post properly you'd have noticed I said he would have tried to speak English as clearly as he could, as opposed to the way he'd address you or I.

 

Sir Alex? Doubt it.

 

Barca should have went for Bielsa, allowing a player (even one as good as Messi) to essentially pick a clubs manager sets an awful precedent and makes Sandro Rosell look incredibly weak.

 

Bielsa has the same ties to Rosario and Newell's as Martino does and plays a far more offensive style. While Messi was in the Newell's system Martino was coaching semi-professional sides in the Buenos Aires metropolitan league and got his big break at a club in Paraguay while Bielsa was in the public eye coaching attacking sides and setting a huge influence within Argentine soccer. Martino is far more pragmatic than Villanova, Roura, and Bielsa, and Rosell likely wanted a return to a more structured system like Guardiola's rather than the frantic style (personal and playing) of someone like Bielsa.

The personality of Martino fits much better.

 

He may prove to be a good fit but that's beside the point; no club should allow a player to dictate their managerial choice, or be seen to allow it. How much influence Messi had can only be guessed at, but it was obviously a significant factor in the selection given Martino's lack of ties to Barcelona.

Without wishing to take a 'Eurocentric' view of proceedings it will be a tough transition for a South American manager with no European experience to make.

Guardiola was a Bielsa devotee for a very good reason, I honestly think he was a far safer bet. Call him frantic if you will, but his system would have been a seamless fit at Camp Nou.

 

The point is that they are both iconic to Newell's. It's like saying that somebody would pick Xavi over Guardiola as a manager because they like Barca. The criticism that you have said about Barca is that they often have no plan B. So they sign a guy who basically fits the bill of having a Barca mentality (much more humble and much more soft-spoken than Bielsa) you criticize the decision because of his ties with Newell's. This is a bit odd considering that Bielsa was his manager at Newell's and actually has the stadium there named after him.

Also, according to ESPN he rejected Santos and Real Madrid earlier in the year. So it's not as if this is some random guy that Barca picked to placate Messi.

And also, it's not beside the point that he's a good fit. Should they hire a guy who's less of a good fit because it would make Messi unhappy?

 

It is beside the point that I was making vis a vis letting a player dictate a managerial appointments; it is the principle of the thing that troubles me. They should have hired the best candidate for the job, regardless of the wishes of one member of the squad.

Past links to the Santos job are of no consequence and understandable given his track record in South American football, the Real Madrid link seems far more tenuous as Florentino Perez has had his heart set on Ancelotti for an awfully long time.

I contend that there were far safer bets out there, Bielsa being but one, and if things go awry Rosell will look back on his decision to kowtow to the whims of a player with regret.

 

Only a matter of time before you do something like this, but if you really can't understand that "criticism you have said" was a typo and were unable to surmise that it should be "criticism you have made" then you are going to have a very long and frustrating life. Or if you're suggesting that you've never criticized Barca for being able to change their game or have a plan B then you can use that for yourself.

And your proof for the fact that Martino was a selection dictated by Messi rests with his connection with Newell's Old Boys while your choice has the Newell's Old Boys stadium named after him. It looks to me that he is the best candidate.

The reporter from ESPN is based in Buenos Aires and has a good reading of the situation in Argentina. Take it up with him. He also touches on the fact that Messi will be happy, which is different than saying that Messi mandated that they get this guy. The two are incredibly different conclusions and you've offered no evidence to prove your claim despite my repeated efforts to show that the Newell's-Messi links with Bielsa.

^

 

This coming from a Chelski fan where player power reigns supreme I find just a tad hard to swallow :smiley-laughing002:

 

You put words into my mouth, it was bizarre and completely uncalled for.

He has never managed in Europe, nor Spain, nor does he have the same intimate knowledge of Barcelona that their past managers have had; to pretend that he is the obvious choice and that Messi's wishes played no part is ludicrous.

Taking Messi out of the equation, Bielsa would have been a logical appointment given his initial track record of success in Spain, although as you have rightly pointed out there were various factors weighed against that such as his unique style of man management. Enrique and Bielsa were the preferred candidates of the Barca fans, Martino is a relative outsider and unquestionably a left-field selection for a club of Barca's stature.

Will Messi's influence prove fruitful or costly? Only time will tell.

You clearly have no grasp on reality, player power does not 'reign supreme' at Chelsea, the club is run on the whims of the owner alone.

 

It's bizarre and uncalled for to bring up that they're addressing your primary criticism, yet you say that Bielsa (who never has a plan B) would be a better choice?

What does Europe have to do with anything? It's not as if he's coming from Messi's youth team in the Bolivian 3rd division. The Argentine league is on par with the European feeder leagues and big clubs often hire their managers from there - it's the equivalent of going from Scotland to England. And whether or not you want to believe it, Martino was linked to Real Madrid by basically all the Spanish press I can find (including Marca) when the Ancelotti process was dragging on, Real Sociedad had him as their first choice (but he wanted to finish out the year), Malaga also looked at him as a replacement for Pellegrini, and Barca hired him. That's three of the four top clubs in Spain that looked at him and four of the top six. He was always leaving Argentina for Spain or Italy after what he did this past year. If you read any of the Spanish/South American press you know that he's highly rated throughout that language sphere.

Your continued insistence on depicting him as some second-rate youth coach handpicked by Messi fails to take into account all of the things that made him pursued by other La Liga clubs, including being the apparent 2nd-3rd choice for Real madrid. If you ask any top-half squad which manager they want, they would pick Martino instead of Bielsa.

Track record of success? He had an insignificant stint with Espanyol in the late 1990s and then proceeded to push Athletic Bilbao further down the table both years he was in charge while isolating their star player in the process. But they beat Manchester United, so I guess that's the track record of success you're citing?

Do you ever actually know what you're talking about? A manager who managed to drop Athletic Bilbao in the table two years in a row while freezing out Llorente (showing an inability to deal with egos) has a proven enough track record in La Liga for Barca but the guy who was a penalty away from defeating Spain in the World Cup with Paraguay, has won 5 titles in South America across Paraguay and Argentina, and finished as a Copa America runner up is the beneficiary of Messi throwing a tantrum. Is this really the idea you're putting forward? You might have more credibility if you chose somebody other than Bielsa.

 

Can I just ask where you're getting the idea that Messi had some sort of major say in who took over at the club?

 

Again with this 'plan B' nonsense, where have I said anything about Barca lacking a 'plan b' in this discussion?

Everything, last time I checked Barcelona were a European club.

Your point being?

I have never painted him as under-qualified per se, I expressly qualified my remarks about his lack of European experience by saying that I am not taking the Eurocentric view: that is, 'if you haven't managed in Europe you aren't up to much,' but the fact remains that relative to Bielsa and Enrique he was the clear third choice in most peoples minds, an outside bet, a left field selection.

Messi's endorsement blatantly played a role in Rosell's decision to forgo more logical appointments and go for a stop-gap measure, a Bielsa light if you will.

Where exactly have I depicted him in the manner you so amusingly describe?

I said there were safer bets, I said that his lack of experience at a club of Barca's stature could cause problems, I said that he wasn't the obvious choice, I said that things could go awry, I said that Rosell could come to regret his decision; I never attacked Martino's record, called his inherent managerial ability into question or characterized him as a 'second-rate youth coach,' and you continue to put words into my mouth.

Where have I expressly said that Messi 'hand-picked' him? What I said was different, subtly different but different all the same: I said that Rosell had bowed to Messi's wish and essentially allowed him to pick the manager, not that Messi was given a short-list and literally asked to make a choice.

I haven't aimed any criticism at Messi for having an opinion (rightly so, every player has a coach in mind they would like to work with) and my initial post clearly slated Rosell and Rosell alone.

This is getting silly, do you even bother to read posts in full or do you just pick up on points in a scatter-gun manner before taking them out of context and attacking them?

Clearly by qualifying 'track record' with 'initial' I was painting Bielsa as a managerial * and ignoring his less than stellar second season at Athletic, right? The logic you're bringing to the table really does amuse me.

You can distort his achievements all you like but the fact remains that he got Athletic to within a whisker of their first piece of silverware in decades. His unique brand of football and management eventually burnt his players out and they suffered as a result during his second season, but with a world class squad filled with players capable of adhering to his system he had every chance of success at Barca.

'Messi throwing a tantrum', hilarious, you really are a brazen sort!

Are you familiar with the term 'straw man'? Your attempt to attack me once again for a position that I clearly do not hold is just childish, I have repeatedly addressed your points in a clear and concise manner and presented my personal opinion, and yet you repeatedly distort my words, take them out of context and proceed to rally against things that I blatantly have not said.

Virtually every article I have read has cited Messi's endorsement as playing a factor in the decision.

 

Argentine Gerardo Martino will take over from Tito Vilanova as manager of Barcelona coach after agreeing a two-year contract, the club confirm.

Newells Old Boys manager

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerardo_Martino"]Gerardo Martino - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jul/22/barcelona-gerardo-martino

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23412750