Celtic in IRA songs row

Is this woman Donalds contrary half sister! The only problem I have with Dr John Reid (other than he is a former Labour polititian) and I am a Tory is that he is an academic, surely it is a business man we want not a hot air merchant refugee from this pathetic warn out government.

 

Heres the full transcript of the interview.

http://www.celtictrust.net/BBCRadio5LiveInterviewTranscript201107.htm

 

we dont need the politics of previous irish troubles to overshadow our great football club

 

To me the point is (and she and many like her miss) that Celtic has plenty to do with the 2nd generation tattie famine immigarants and it was clearly set up to help them. However, it had not much to do with the republicanism which did not have a big support even in Ireland in that period. Brother Wlafrid would nto have approved of physical force nationalism and the Catholic church was dead against many of the strands of Irish republicanism. The club certainly has a right to mark its Irish roots but not with political stuff which has nothing to do with the club. Politics is a personal issue and should remain that way. Thats why we have a secret ballot. I personally think plenty, maybe even too much. is already done to mark roots, way more than teams with similar roots like Hibs do who IMO have had a more successful integration into mainstream Scottish society.

 

I think bemoaning this, yet zealously defending the establishment line trotted out in response to this situation is the answer in itself. What makes Celtic great is what we have grown from. The more the agenda you subscribe to takes hold, the more we will become another 'brand' with it's clientele wanting to served by that brand. You can't have it both ways.

What made Celtic more than "just another club' since it's inception is contained partially within the dynamic Findlay was attempting to portray.. however clumsily.

Celtic had an opportunity (again) to clarify the difference between political and sectarian, and not pander to the almost overbearing pressure to tow the lapdog line that we are merely a mirror reflection of the anti catholic ethos that propped up Scottish society for years. Ie: A Greeen and white half of Scottish intolerance.

I really fail to see how her comments are 'repugnant' as described by the Scottish Executive, or how they have any corellation to 'bigotry'.

As far as I can see, she attempted to elucidate an actual, true phenomena that permeates the fabric of the club.

Yes, so 'repulsed' are they at this 'bigotry', it seems, that the same Executive traverse the Irish Sea regularly as the guest/host of former commanders and volunteers of Irish Republican organisations in Government, more pertinantly in the North, but let's not forget the * licking of the architects of the South's economy. The very political parties parties these songs were born from a hundred years ago.

Quite frankly it's revisionism at it's worst, and I for one am sad to see a growing sheep menatlity within the Celtic ranks. we always were an anti establishment club, politically and socially savvy. Some of the comments on betray a clear unwillingness or inability to seperate what you are force fed in the Scottish rags from objective history and reality. Even sadder is that Celtic PLC are forced and hamstrung into shuffling neatly into line.

Woe betide we have an awkward moment at the next multinational/Scotiish Executive meeting with Celtic PLC board members so lets bastardise and revise what our history and identity is/was to make it handier. That a signifigant portion of Celtic's histoey and current support gets alienated further still is the price they are willing to pay for this.

Midnight Toker, you can't hope for Celtic to continue to exist outside the ether of a mere football team on the one hand, and on the other hand pander to the very processes that are gradually leading us toward becoming 'just another club'.

Much more of what we are seeing, and we will be a Glasgow based Newcastle in a decade or so.

Go Hoops!! (Copyright Celtic PLC in conjunction with McDonalds: Da Da Da Da Da: I'm Lovin It)

 

.. PS: this debate has been had many times before: on this forum, with Celtic officialdom and -going further back- with anti Celtic sentiment in Scotland.

The challenge was always put: define what it is that is sectarian and can break a drafted Law and we will happily cede. Fact is Celtic isn't a sectarian club and Irish Republicanism isn't a sectarian political outlook and the songs concerned cannot be shown to be sectarian. Guess why: simply because they are not.

It's no coincidence that these three strands overlap wthin the Celtic family. In a nutshell you could say it's because our ethos is that we are 'the good guys'.

Again, the wishy washy formulaic word games from Celtic PLC on what should go and what shouldn't merely serves to outline how difficult it has been to encompass the Celtic repertoire along with overtly hate filled material which we are the antithesis of from our nemesis. That we are even playing the game of eradicating all but YNWA, Celtic Song and a few, mostly unmemorable ditties about various players, shows how far this fallacy has gone.

Why bemoan the paring back of Celtic's diversity and culture and the effect it has on matchdays, whilst also giving an accepting nod of approval to those self same efforts?

To recap: the challenge can't be met, to remove the songs that are being targeted at Celtic Park whilst not having the same criteria met by * Save the Queen, Flower of Scotland or even the wearing of poppies and a minutes silence at matches on Remembrance day. All are overtly political and equally as divisive, though not sectarian imo. The only difference? They aren't against the auld aristocratic agenda.

Imo, this has gone too far. It's gone beyond morons shouting Orange bassas or such and the like being targeted.

Unless the singing traditional Celtic songs (of Irish lineage or not) can be can be prohibited by a robust law in a courtroom (in which case bye bye anthems and poppy day also), then those songs should not be forced to whither and die. It's time to stop poodling and allowing those people we have always stood as a barrier against achieving by stealth what they always wished to achieve by domination.

Hail, Hail!

 

'The politics of previous Irish troubles' gave birth to our great football club!

 

Why is it that the English can sing Land of Hope and Glory which is about the English (British) building an empire through their soldiers going into foreign countries and taking said countries away from the people who lived there using guns against spears and bows and arrows mainly, yet we of Irish decent cannot sing songs from the same era because we were fighting the English?

I don't sing provo songs, but I've nothing against sing songs like Come out you Black & Tans and Sean South etc. It's history and by not singing them we are being told to sweep nearly 1000 years of history under the carpet.

 

What you guys are failing to understand is the fact that times change and attitudes are diferent from a 1000 years ago if they didnt nobody would advance and we would be stuck in the dark ages. I am sorry but no sane minded person can defend the actions of people who are resposible for mindless violence I am not talking about ancient history I am refering to the atrocities ie. Omagh etcetectc. The organisation that caried out these events and many others like it should not be glorified for the carnage and destruction they have brought on the inocence. Like I say times change along with attitudes even the objectives of the people in our songs change people should remeber that.

 

So much for freedom of speech. This day and age we all have to recognise that you can't publicly sing or shout about your beliefs in case it clashes with someone elses. As there is always someone to be offended were all as well keeping our traps shut. We no longer have the right to freedom of speech, we no longer have the right to express our feelings and emotions in public. The sooner we all do as we are told and go about our lives the way we are supposed to, pay our taxes, do things the way thats expected of us and don't upset anyone then everything will be fine. The sooner we all realise this the better for us all. Become a sheep!

 

1984

 

While never condoning violence, it must be recognised that governments have, in many instances, eventually recognised and worked with those who were considered terrorists and were responsible for killing and maiming. Two notably springing to mind are Israel and Kenya - in both cases the government heavily involved was Britain.

 

funny enough how today's society glorifies violence: songs, movies etc. just check out your youth wherever you are. they all want to be a gangsta, want to sell dope, get all the money and hoes etc. most bigger countries governments have got blood on their hands, they are the biggest criminals of them all actually. freeboting, invading and occupying other countries, terrorising and raping their people etc.

yet they tell you guys what to do and especially what not to do. furthermore they go bananas only because a few football songs sing some certain songs. why is their national anthem ain't banned? what about their national flag? it's associated with way more dirty deeds than any other folk song.

the most awesome thing: why is the other side of glasgow "allowed" to keep their songs while we will get hunted down?

at the end of the day we are talking about songs, nothing less, nothing more.

 

*.

 

With respect, that's just opinion based on propaganda an little else. To say most of the Republican struggle in whatever era was 'mindless violence' is just plain wrong.

Yes, it's very true there were many innocent casualties, but I ask you objectively: what's the quantifiable difference between that 'mindless' violence and that which claimed innocent lives under the banner of the ANC or, more pertinently, from the carpet bombing of Dresden and much more recently, various Muslim peoples in Afghanistan and Iraq.

The only real difference I can see is that the powers that be push their agenda and mould which 'mindless' violence' is more suitable for the sheep to accept. Sure, don't we tacitly accept the innumerable atrocities of recent oil sojourns when we honour the dead of those campaigns (amongst others) with Poppies and a minutes silence. Indeed our very own Chairman was not exactly on the periphery of giving effect the most mindless and globally destabilising of violence the world has experienced in decades!

The plain fact is that a significant portion of the Celtic support have had their political beliefs forged either by living in the reality of the things we are discussing, or having been very well versed in them (and no, not through ingesting the Daily Mail/Record opinion pages. Those views are to allowed expression, even though they may cause consternation from those who disagree. In the very same way that Remembrance Day must be allowed freedom of expression by whomsoever sees fit.

The revisionism of history we as a club and some fans are increasingly complicit in is alarming.

Hail, Hail!

 

You are entitled to your opinion but how many of us are fed up with this debate? It's like ....... here we go with this old argument again. Gets a bit tiresome when so many other things are going on with regard to the football which is what we are all here for.

 

what the * are you calling him a * for did you not read on the guy appologised and said he was telling the guy to * off for promoting the ira

so read all the posts before you start your pish in here pal
__________________

 

Yes, I am fed up with the debate. I'm fed up that a sizeable section of the Celtic diaspora and ethos is increasingly brought up for debate and revision.

If it's getting tiresome, perhaps we should look to those who are pursuing ulterior agendas and finally confront them demanding a stop to taht tiresome agenda.

Celtic never was just about the football, it encompasses something else that is hard to define completely in one thread... which makes us special like a select few clubs across the world.

Dilute that down too much and what have you got. A mere Soccer team and an accompanying PLC.

As I say, like a Glasweigan Newcastle.

Hail, Hail!

 

I * love the songs too