Can we make Parkhead a fortress again?

Possible, but I’ll believe it when I see it.

Domestic dominance while looking out of our depth in the CL has been par of the course for years, and it will take more than further domestic dominance for me to expect it to be different this time.

(That said, I do think we’ll do better this time )

 

What use is optimism if it’s not grounded in reality? I’m being realistic not pessimistic.

I would like to be more positive about it, if I thought I could base it on anything logical. I can’t… I don’t see anything that would give me hope of seeing a different approach in Europe. It’s nice to be invited to the party, but we’ll be cannon fodder as usual…

 

If we can get behind the team and show our opponents the same levels of hostility that we did at the weekened - sure, why not?

Far too often we have played sides in the CL recently and our home supporters have been silent for large portions of the game. Star struck? Fearing the worst? Perhaps a combination, and that mentality needs to shift for it to truly be a fortress again - as it will affect our players negatively and our opponents positively.

I believe we now have a manager, team and format that will allow us to go far.

 

Let’s be realistic, we likely need 9 points to make a playoff round at minimum.

I’d usually not be confident, but do I think we could beat Bratislava, Young Boys, Zagreb, and Brugge, before even considering Leipzig, Dortmund, Atalanta and Villa.

Rodgers understands that physicality and athleticism are key in European games, something I think we have lacked before. We did okay last year, but a lot of injuries and a terrible transfer window killed us.

I think we will do well this year. Feel like we’ve had a good window and now have solid competition in almost every position.

Bernardo, Engels and McGregor is a balanced midfield that I think would work well in Europe. Hatate is another option if we want to attack a bit more or in games against weaker teams where we’ll have more of the ball.

 

Don't you feel Rodgers has significantly changed his tactics though?

I feel like we seen a noticeable change last season. We were very unlucky not to beat two really good sides. I'd argue if we hadn't had such an abysmal window last season we would've beaten Lazio and Atletico at home.

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On the wider point, I'm not sure we should have the expectation of a fortress yet.

To me you need to be hard to beat which I don't think we are due to lack of depth. I'm not trying to be negative, I think we're getting there. There has been progress since Lawwell was ousted earlier in the year. I think Nicholson is coming on board and the more success we have under his tenure the more he will be able to be his own man.

 

No. We were terrible defensively last year. And despite our fancy Dan football, we also had one of the least effective attacks as well.

The equation never changes in this competition, and it has never changed for a club like us coming from a weaker league.

You must be well organised, you must defend properly, and you must be effective on the counter attack. That’s the formula for results at this level. If you fail to do those basic fundamentals… you will be ruthlessly taken apart in this competition.

That’s what happened last season, and I see no sign that Rodgers is likely to learn any lessons and make significant improvements in those key areas. We are not a team set up to get results at this level… we are set up to be cannon fodder!

 

This most simulations have it as 8 points. So that's 2 home wins out of 4. The "easier" games we actually have at home. That leaves 6 full games to scrape 2 draws. Very possible.

 

I don't fully agree but it's a fair opinion.

I think he's been a bit more pragmatic this time around. Last season we were very unlucky not to beat Lazio and Atletico at home. I don't think we lost / drew those games because of Rodgers, I think it really was squad depth. Look at some of the players he had to bring on. Depending on injuries we potentially have that problem again this season which is disappointing (and why I think we might underperform again).

It's worth pointing out though that if you beat Lazio or Atletico at home, you come third last year. Beat them both (which again, was very close) you get to the last 16. Considering the squad problems at that time last year that's not really cannon fodder.

 

I don’t think we were unlucky. We actually could have conceded more in those games, particularly the atletico game…

And our away performances, truly awful… Rodgers showed how clueless he is at this level.

If you defend like we do in this competition, you’ll never achieve anything. Simple as that. It’s not bad luck, it’s bad management.

 

I think the big thing is having squad depth, we saw in under Ange being able to go toe to toe with big teams for 60mins then not have the quality to come off the bench.

We should now have more than enough to compete well for a play off spot if we can keep everyone fit. Just takes 1 injury and we struggle, last 2 seasons we’ve had CCV, McGregor, Hatate, Kyogo etc all missing for several matches.

 

I think we were unlucky. We had more shots, shots on target, possession, passes than Lazio and we had an extremely marginal offside goal chopped off towards the end. They scored in the 95th minute. That's bad luck, not bad management. Didn't we have to start the likes of Yang and Phillips?


Atletico were much better but they are a side that have a great chance of winning the whole thing in some seasons, so that's expected. I think getting a 2-2 draw given our squad against them is good management rather than bad.

We need to do better but I only mean to say that overall I don't think Rodgers is leaving us mega exposed. He seemed quite pragmatic to me last season but was let down by a huge drop off from his first 11. Otherwise I think we come third or even second or at least go unbeaten at home - which is the point of this thread.

 

Yep, people are forgetting we were plagued with injuries at the UCL campaign last year.

Even some of those who did play, like CCV, were just back from an injury or playing through something.

I think we’re in much better shape now, both squad wise and hopefully fitness wise.

 

A fortress? Probably not in the way we all remember 20 odd year ago.

The likes of Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Liverpool etc will likely all still come to Parkhead and win regularly. There was something supernatural about the way teams just turned up and lost at Celtic Park during the O'Neill and Strachan days.

But I see no reason why we can't get rid of the Bodo/Glimt, Copenhagen, Ajax, RB Salzburg kind of defeats to be honest.

I think we're heading in a direction that could very well see us restore some real credibility in Europe. We need to take it step by step and focus on properly seeing off teams that shouldn't be winning at Celtic Park. Seeing off teams who come to Celtic Park with lesser budgets but look 5x the team we are.

Bratislava, Brugge, and Young Boys are all coming to Glasgow in this year's Champions League. I don't want a single one leaving with anything more than * all. Because for me, that's the stage where we should be at. That's what we should be targeting.

So no I don't see it becoming a fortress in the way we all remember it. I think those days are long gone and money has a huuuuuge part to play in it. But I do see us finally getting some proper good nights at home once again.

 

It’s not bad luck, when you defend as poorly as we do.

The facts don’t lie, we get opened up easily at this level because of rubbish tactics. We’re conceding far more goals on average than we’re scoring, because we over emphasise attack and don’t really care about defending properly.

It’s a dumb unintelligent way to play at this level of competition… “this is chess, not checkers…” (as the famous movie quote goes)

We need to wise up, and stop playing naive football. Or else it will be more of the same again.

 

Part of what made it a fortress was the constant backing from the support and unrelenting noise.

Controversial opinion, but that isn’t there any more.

Even at the weekend it was very flat for large parts of the game, and when the players make a mistake the attitude is to hound an abuse them rather than offering backing.

Karagandy in 2013 is the last European game I can remember where we backed them for 90 full minutes. Maybe Man City in 2017 and a few exceptions in the EL, but it’s nothing like it was in the early 2000s.

 

No, we're defensively naive. Even rangers had good chances against us and they are *!

We leave far too many gaps and playing against SPL fodder week in week out means we are rarely tested.

Over the years our 3 biggest failures are backing off runners, ball-watching and failing to anticipate 2nd balls.

Might be better with Trusty and Valle if they become first picks. Midfield isn't physical enough for European footy. EDIT - Bernardo does press quite well, but he's not fast and still to see what physicality Engels might bring.

Still think we can win a good few games this year though, even with our defensive frailties.

 

Football has changed a lot since the ONeil/Strachan era, so the days of any 'small league' team regularly beating elite teams at home has gone. The gulf is too wide. Of course they may get the odd result but for reasons nothing to do with celtic I can't see us ever reaching that level of consistent success.

But against tier 2 and tier 3 teams in Europe, absolutely. There is no reason why we shouldn't be going into our games at home this season genuinely believing we can win every one. I expect the atmosphere will be buzzing just as much against the smaller European sides we can realistically beat compared to the usual 'glamour ties' we are very unlikely to get a result from.

 

If Lennon could get us to the last 16 in 2012 with a team that had Sammy in it, then yes, there's plenty to look forward to.

 

If we can get rid off the lapses in concentration (which even gave a * hun team a couple of chances on Sunday) and keep all our top players fit then we can make our patch a very difficult place to come to for opposition teams

 

That was 2013. And Lennon didn’t play dumb open tactics in Europe ignoring defence… we played on the counter, conceding far fewer goals. And we were more effective in attack as well (despite this current fancy dan team looking better on the ball)

Difference is Lenny actually played at that level, he wasn’t stupid enough to send a team out to play open football and leave huge gaps at the back. Anyone who played at that level understands the need to be well organised.

Lenny made his fair share of mistakes, particularly domestically. But he usually had a game plan for Europe… which is essential because it’s a completely different beast to what we’re facing in the league most weeks.