Brendan Rodgers Discussion Thread

We have seen this movie before a few months before Ang chucked it and left for spurs and the results then were Very similar and getting the same vibe and think the players know Rogers is off at the end off the season and he hasn't signed a extension of his contract so wouldn't be surprised he's gone by June .

 

We must have very different memories, and the numbers do seem to stack up to back up mine.

Celtic in 2022/23 secured the title on the first game after the split, but in the 14 games prior to the split (basically, from Jan 1 2023 - end of April 2023) Celtic had a record in the Premiership of 12-2-0. On top of which they also won the treble, but because of the World Cup, the LC SF & F were in the back half of the season as well as the entire SC run.

So that made it a record of 18-2-0 up to & including clinching the title. After that point, Celtic won just 1 of the remaining 4 league fixtures, but the important difference was, the league was already locked safely away, the LC was also won and the only Cup game left to be played was the Final, which was to be against Inverness CT, which obv they won that also, but that wasn't until after all of the other games to be played out.

Oh, and Celtic is derby games in that Jan-April 2023 period was P4 (2LG 1LC 1SC) for W3 D1 L0. Celtic did lose to Sevco at Ipox after the title was clinched, but again, important distinction is the title was already wrapped up.

Compare that to 2025 so far. With a league record of 9-1-4 (28 points) between new years derby to this point. Not exactly the same as 12-2-0 (38 points) in 2023 over the same period. In games against Sevco, Celtic are 0-2 in 2025 so far also.

Granted, after Celtic had the title wrapped up in 2023, Ange did take his foot off the gas, and started to try a few things, gave fringe players such as Kobayashi, Bernabei and Oh a bit more of a run of games and allowed CCV to go have an operation after the SC SF win over Sevco. Ange was still being professional but he wasn't looking to be totally selfish * either and put his own ambitions ahead of the club, such as having CCV wait until the summer to have the op, which would've delayed recovery time into the start of 2023/24 - when Ange likely knew he wouldn't be here.

So I think it is unfair for you to say that the issues and trends are the same as was seen towards the back end of Ange's time.

A more accurate comparison of trends would be in Rodgers' 2nd season here in his first stint, in 2017/18.

The League was clinched 2nd post-split game in 2017/18, but in the 14 games preceding that from the new years derby (which was end of Dec actually) onwards, Celtic had a record of 8-4-2 (28 points) in 14 league games. And again after the title was clinched, dropped more points v Killie as well as a loss to Aberdeen.

But again at that point, after the better part of nearly 2 seasons of playing virtually the exact same way, other teams had worked out BRs tactics and other teams were devising ways of being able to combat that. We are witnessing a similiarity here, with the same structure, formation and tactics with little to no variation and a worrying lack of imagination or a Plan B, aside from simply switching personnel.

And all the while * that he needs/wants more money to spend. In Summer 2024 he was given more money last summer than any Celtic manager has ever been given to spend, or at the very least since early under MO'N. The fact that Celtic can afford it isn't the point, but the noises he is making sounds eerily reminiscent of his first tenure, after that initial Invincible season.

 

The noises he made about wanting more money first time round was the same noises every fan was making. He wasn’t backed, and in the end he jumped at an opportunity, which I don’t think you can blame him. He was given money last summer, and we have done better in Europe than we have in the past * knows how long. Him continually wanting backed is what I’d expect from any Celtic manager with their salt. Because we as fans can still see that our squad is still pretty threadbare, and we still lack physicality. I’d rather a manager hounding the board wanting backed to try and take us forward than a yes man happy to accept crumbs the board give them. Because that’s exactly what this board would do.

When we talk about him getting money, we also need to factor in what we are selling players on for. We did still have a nett profit from players trading last summer. That has to be remembered also.

I’d say given what we achieved in the CL this year, and the money we made from it, Rodgers has been justified in his signings, as they have all played a big part in us getting to where we did, and it’s ultimately in the CL where we can look to make big money.

 

I dont see the club giving him what he would want in the summer tbh. We have a qualifier this year and it could be a right proper tricky tie they wont want to over commit

 

* me, the knives are oot for BR, criticism is fair but trying to chase the manager or saying ye want rid is * ridiculous. We're swimming in silverware and while it's no been the best watch at times it seems pretty entitled to be calling for his head when he does nothing but win.

 

Ah the fickle football fans. What a strange breed we are! A dip in form, a loss and it's a crisis but another win and we'll be back to pruning our feathers with pride. Knee-* reactions and handwringers to the fore following unsatisfactory results. Jeesh how many would have survived those troubled dark days of old? Are we so spoilt and drunk on earlier successful campaigns that any downturn results in years of therapy? How dare teams play out their skin against us, how dare they have the audacity to raise their game against us?
Well I'll tell you why, it is because 'WE ARE THE BENCH MARK!!'. We are what everyone else aspires to be, think about that. The only comparison we have is what we achieved prior, we are the only standard we have to reach. Sometimes it takes a knock to to focus, wake us up without the motivation of a 'do or die' cup fixture.

When we are our only comparison how can we constantly reach the level beyond ourselves? It's a toughy

 

It should be against a team that are at a level that we took care of in this year’s CL. The board have to realise by now that we simply need to be in the CL. That is where the money is at, and it’s where we can showcase our players that then allows us to sell them on for big money. It’s all part of the model. The strategy over the years seems to have been making money from player sales and just hoping we can get a CL as a bonus, when it should be CL qualification that is top of the list.

 

He'll definitely do next season.. depending how he's backed in the summer will decide if he stays longer..

 

Do you actually believe this ?
He is contracted another year and has said explicitly he will see out his 3 years.
No chance he leaves in the summer.

 

The massive, and I mean massive, overreaction on this thread over the last few days is embarrassing.

No issue with people annoyed at how the football has fallen off over the last few months, but coming out with * like "worried for next season" and wanting him to leave after a few months where the football has fallen off is beyond Naive.

Prior to Christmas, almost everyone was talking about how good the football was and there was genuinely comments on how it was the best we've seen recently, even better than Ange's.

We've made a massive step forward in Europe this year, there were two games where I think the performance should have been better (Dortmund and Young Boys) and another where we should have won (Zagreb) but we had some excellent results against Atalanta, Leipzig and Bayern, the away performance against Bayern was some of the best football I've seen us play in Europe for a long time.

Not even just Rodgers, people turning on the players too, some of which have been excellent over the season and are going through a dip. Engels in particular, the way some people speak about him is no better than the huns.

Our recent performances (particularly against the huns) needs addressing, and if he loses at Ibrox again then he'll be inviting a lot of un-needed pressure on himself, but with some of the reactions on here, you'd think we went out at the group stage in Europe again and were behind in the league.

 

Any talk of sacking him is ridiculous but I will say I'm not enjoying to games as much as when Ange was here and I wouldn't be that bothered if he won the treble and decided to leave.

If he stays the board need to back him substantially.

 

This was my position end of last season. Have to say though first half of this season football was absolutely excellent at points. Not enjoying it now and have been complaining about it for a while, but leagues done. Does feel like Rodgers has lost focus.

Definitely think he'll see out his contract and don't think we are set up to deal with it if he doesn't. Usual absence of anything remotely like a modern football club structure tells us that.

 

This.

Wouldn't be arsed in the slightest if he polished the treble and walked off into the sunset.

Chances are he staying. But just as Im worried about history repeating itself with the usual BR slide, im MORE worried about history repeating itself with the board refusing to back him again.

The squad needs a massive refresh, with new faces in all areas. Most desperately a defensive mid of REAL quality, which i honestly believe would transform this sides performances of late.

 

Hopefully he was watching how to play fast exiting football last night and the penny dropped. Seriously though, he must realise that his current tactics have been sussed by most teams by now and that he has to adapt his tactics to suit. * that slow monotonous build up and, dare I say it, play a bit of Angeball

 

Doubt he watched the Coventry v Portsmouth game mate, but I get what you're saying.

 

Just some stats to back this up...

Celtic's record from the new years derby to this point in the season, going back over the past 10 years...

Note, these are just League figures, includes total number of league points secured (W-D-L) in those respective runs over the past 10 seasons...

15/16 - 33 (10-3-1) - in Ronny D's last season, and pre-Sevco return to Premiership
16/17 - 36 (11-3-0) - in BR's first season, aka the Invincibles
17/18 - 28 (8-4-2) - in what was BR's 2nd season
18/19 - 35 (11-2-1) - includes partly BR who left in February & Lenny took over
19/20 - 28 (9-1-1) - Covid ended season early, but that was the record at that point.
20/21 - 25 (7-4-3) - Lenny resigned in Feb & Kennedy takes interum charge.
21/22 - 40 (13-1-0) - in Ange 1st season
22/23 - 38 (12-2-0) - in Ange 2nd season
23/24 - 33 (10-3-1) - in BR's return season
24/25 - 28 (9-1-4) - in this current season

Obviously context matters. For example, we were in a real title race last season, so there was little in the way of wriggle room in order to win the league, compared to this season, when because of having established a comfortable lead in the first half of the season and an equally inconsistent Sevco, we have avoided being punished for this.

In fact, apart from the 2020/21 season when Celtic lost the league, 28 points accumulated from the 14 games from the New Years derby (or equilivent) onwards is also the joint 2nd least picked up since the disasterous 2009/10 run which had a shambolic 7-3-4 run.

And THIS SEASON is also the first time since that Mowbray run where we have been defeated 4 times during this period of the season.

In the past 10 seasons, 3 times Celtic have picked up just 28 points during this period, and Rodgers is responsible for 2 of those seasons (17/18 & this current 24/25 season). The only other time was when Covid ended the season short, and Celtic had already accumulated 28 points with 3 games to spare.

A football team is not simply a wind-up toy and the persistence of Rodgers' formation and strategy is that everyone pretty much knows Rodgers' Celtic proverbial playbook is at this point, and oppositions have worked out ways of combating it. He might point the finger elsewhere, but he has to accept that a sizeable part of this problem is his to own.

This is not unique either.

It happened during his first tenure at the club. It happened at Liverpool and it happened at Leicester also. We essentially played a 4-2-3-1 formation for the entire time he was here the first time and teams gradually adapted.

Even during that record breaking 69 League game unbeaten run extending right back to the end of Ronny D's time, all through the Invincibles and until nearly Christmas 2017. Towards the end of that, in the 10 league games prior to that ending in the 4-0 loss to Hearts, Celtic had a record of 5 wins and 5 draws in that period - a clear sign that teams were beginning to find ways to counter Celtic's 'one size fits all' approach. The warning signs should've been going off in Rodgers' head long before then, as it was like everyone knew it was only delaying the inevitible towards the end, and when it came, it was really to the shock of noone, aside from the size of the capitulation.

And even after that 4-0 Hearts' loss, as mentioned it wasn't like that was a sole abberation and then it was back to 'business as usual', as highlighted by the stats I've supplied for that 2017/18 post-new years run.

A half competant Sevco or Dons being that little bit better could've punished that slackness in that 2017/18 season, but they were in the Pedro and Murty circus, and Celtic finished 9 points clear of 2nd placed Aberdeen.

His insistence of playing out from the back, for example, means that oppositions know they can push up and press a little higher on the pitch, because it is coming at them the same way every time.

While BR deserves credit for what he does well, there is justifiable criticism also, and there is also the law of diminishing returns from looking to just do the same thing over and over, without looking to evolve, and expecting the same result without taking into account the changing circumstance and situation. Opponants adapt, and we are once again witnessing that happening.

The thing is, BR is capable of adapting tactics, as seen in the CL campaign.

We played 4 games more in Europe this season than we did last. 15 goals conceded in 6 CL games in 2023/24, this season there were 17 in 10 games overall, with the Dortmund and Villa results accounting for 11 of those, meaning conceding just 6 goals across the other 8 games (incl 2 matches with Bayern), is a marked improvement.

Obviously, that requires a degree of taking into account the varying quality of the opposition, but isn't that what we have here in the Premiership also; opposition of differing qualities? The resources and respective form of Aberdeen or Hibs is not the same as that of St J. None the less, it shows that adapting tactics is sometimes necessary, rather than the 'one size fits all' approach, which at any level is naturally going to produce increasingly diminished returns.

 

Upfront Brendan Rodgers insists there will be changes needed at Celtic in the summer to boost the hunger levels at Parkhead.

The Hoops boss accused his squad of being too comfortable in recent weeks after slipping to three defeats in six Premiership games with the finishing line in sight.

Celtic could be crowned champions this weekend if they beat Kilmarnock and Rangers fail to win at Aberdeen.

But Rodgers insisted there is a lot of work to be done in the transfer market – even if Celts kick on and claim another Treble.

The Irishman admitted the club might need a refresh – but not when it comes to the manager.

Rodgers said: “It's all about improvement. I think naturally what you have at our club is a natural slide of players that move out and come in every three or four years.

“It's the nature of our model here, but it's also the nature of players being here and maybe either looking to move on or want to come away from the pressure that's here, because three or four years of it, it's a lot of pressure.

“But we always have to be ready to replace any players that go. But obviously important for us is improvement.

“We always want to improve the team, improve the hunger in the team. “That's always key. You need the freshness.

“It's either that or the manager goes. It’s simple, there’s no rocket science in it. You cannot be at a club for a long period of time with the same group of players.

“And likewise, the same group of players need a different voice. But at this moment, it'll be about improving the squad.

“I think change is needed. I think that's that freshness, that new energy coming into your squad that alleviates any of that sort of complacency.

“So we will bring players in to challenge the squad and the team for the summer.

“That's natural at any team. However this team does at the end of the season, come the end, we want to improve it. Because, like I said, if you just sit on that, then the team needs the competition.

“So either way, we will look to improve the squad.”

Rodgers revealed wide man Yang is out for at least a fortnight with an elbow injury and he’s looking for a response after letting rip after last week’s loss to St Johnstone.

He said: “If we're going to be champions, then we want to show why we're a champion. We want to have that mentality, strong performances.

“I spoke before about sprinting over the line. And for us, as we're getting over the line, everyone is anticipating that it will be done. But it's not done until you actually get the points.

“And I think part of my frustration also last week was the opportunity to win that at home.

“I think the last time we were able to do that, I was lucky enough my first time here, it was 2018.

“We have supporters travelling all the way around the world, following us up and down the country, everywhere. And it doesn't happen often.

“So the opportunity to be able to come into tomorrow's game to win the title would have been a great tonic for the supporters.

“However, it wasn't to be. So it's now about preparing now for the game tomorrow, putting in a strong performance, which we will need. And then we keep collecting the points until we are a champion.”

 

Ccv. Hatate and maybe a few others then that have been here for 3 or 4 years off. Expecting a big summer of change by sounds of it