are arsenal bigger than us

Do you know the definition of the word result? I didn't say European trophy I said result a team that gets knocked out in the first qualfying round of the Uefa Cup has a result in Europe it won't get them ranked well though. People like your self ripped up Arsenal for being 5th ranked due to only having money but now you defend someone saying ManU have international distinction through the same means. I never said Arsenal were the number 1 team in Europe I said Arsenal are ranked 5th by UEFA and rightly so based on good results <---- See there's that word. I never took anything away from ManU results all I said is you blame Arsenal results on money and praise ManU's and ignore the money.

The balance in the game shifts over time money shifts top players go past their prime and transfers happen thats why UEFA rankings are good because they show who are the top teams in Europe over a relavent time frame and teams like Barca and ManU and Chelski earn their top rankings on the pitch on European nights by getting good results and why the UEFA coefficient is a good system to rank clubs. Real may be the top club in history but in the last 5 years there results have been poor by there standards and rightfully they are granted nothing for things done in the 50's and 60's when it comes to ranking teams today.

Try to help you with this I know you Europeans like F1 so lets goto Scotland native son David Coulthard back in the 90's early 00's. Was he not one of the top drivers in the circuit? Yes of course finishing near the top every year and challenging are good RESULTS but did he ever win a championship no takes a bit away but he still was a good driver a proved it year in year out he was one of the best. By comparison Arsenal are still in their prime and have time to get a championship but until we do we still have good results and are a top side and could win it any year while in the case of oh lets say the 47th ranked team would probably need a miracle because they have shown over the last 5 years they are not up to par with top clubs in Europe.

That my friend is a explanation and analogy for the word result... learn something new every day.

 

I don't even know * you're talking about. As your last post bitched about, I referenced ManUres domestic record. Now you're * about me mentioning CL when I didn't. Brilliant.

UEFA coefficient, like FIFA rankings, is "sufficient" at identifying the top handful of teams over a very limited period of time. Once you get past that, however, it's just a * mess.
Arsenal being a 1seed is not surprising considering the sheer amount of money going in and out. In fact, it'd be laughable if you weren't.

I don't give a * about F1.

 

Let me make this simple for you, since you obviously have problems following the debate.

Are you going to continue insisting Arsenal is a big club in England because of their 7 titles going over 50 years back?

 

Really Look at the below quote I don't know what kind of memory issues you have go and look at this post.

LOL thats about the 4th time you have contradicted yourself tonight.

Arsenal got results in the early 2000's as well in Europe with a much smaller revenue stream so the money point is invalid. Besides Celtic are a top 20 formerly top 10 revenue generating side yet haven't been to the quarters in 30 years so I guess its not all down to money eh.

2 pts for a win
1 pt for a draw
3 pts bonus for being in the champions league

Its not a confusing system if you go no where in the Uefa cup or are * in the UCL than you don't earn many points the system works fine face it Celtic have done nothing in Europe since a Uefa cup final 7 years ago they earned there ranking complain about the system all you want but you are where you belong based on results.

Nope now that I know what you wanted I provided above so you insist Liverpool is a big club what have they done domestically in the EPL era. Europe they won two trophies to Arsenal one trophy. So what is it that makes them big?

You Never answered my question are Inter a big club and if so please back it up?

 

No, it's not. It's really simple ffs.
Arsenal can outspend everyone outside 2 teams in La Liga and 3 teams in EPL, who are all on roughly equal financial footing. The only reason for this is because of the Sky phenomenon. Ergo, their recent QF, SF, Final finals in CL don't mean * as 90% of the teams in CL can't compete with that money. Just look at Vermaelen. There's no doubt Ajax is a far bigger team than Arsenal can dream of being, but they're forced to be a selling club in this environment.
However, since every team in EPL gets Sky money -- EPL as a competition is still fair.

Now that I've broken this down for you seasame street / barney / tubby tooby style ... stop sticking words in my mouth.

Liverpool is the most succesful club in England and that success is far more relevent and recent than the 1930s. They've also had plenty of success in Europe without sky money. However, to steal another users jibe, they're becoming more like Newcastle United by the day.

 

Finishing 3rd >> Finishing 2nd and progressing !!!
Guess that's Arsenal logic for you though. Perennial also-rans.

lol, knew you'd chicken out of that one. You had 2 options...

- Claim Arsenal is a big club based off of 50+ year-old titles. Then get owned because we have the trump card you'll never be able to touch.

or

- Attempt to obfuscate the situation in the modern era and claim you're a "big team" based on coefficient points.

At least if you had gone with option 1 you'd still be a big club... but you've chosen. And you've chosen that Arsenal = Britney Spears. Nothing but "over-hyped-marketing-campaign-appealing-to-the-slobbering-masses-that'll-buy-whatever-is-put-in-front-of-them" also rans.

Cheers!

 

mcnaka,



what would your criteria be to be a big club, and "trump" other clubs?

 

The fact that there are too many of you on here.

 

Knew you London guys were a little bent.

In the above reference it was obviously the European Cup. A trophy Arsenal can't even buy, let alone compete for with a home-grown side.

 

mcnaka, im quite happy to debate this issue with you and my post wasnt a snide comment and didnt warrant a snide comeback.

if you answer my question i will debate with you

 

I'm not going to rehash several pages of debate that's already occurred. If you're sincere I'd implore you to click back a few pages, read what has already been said, and respond in kind.

Cheers!

 

well said hantsbhoy couldnt agree more

 

to be fair, i have and most of it is rubbish, from both sides may i add.

well ill give you my opinion on the "criteria" of being a big club.

is it the size of your stadium... absolutely not.
is it your bank balance... not a chance.
is it the "global brand"...comes into the equation certainly.
off the field, the structure of a club... nope, means not a thing.
on the field... teams come and go. cant be that

the only criteria that imo matters when deciding a "big" club is the honours the club has picked up in a sustained period in its history.

would you agree with that

 

And your name is at the top of the list.

 

what i have been saying for years

 

Well your last sentence seems to be the exact same as "on the field" there, so you'll have to be more specific.
It also depends exactly on what you mean by a "sustained history". Particularly, who is to say how big a gap in time between trophies renders that no longer "sustained".
Furthermore, I would add that those results have to be obtained on a level playing field.

It looks to me like you're just trying to ask a loaded question.

There are a lot of things that make a big team as far as I'm concerned and it's not easy to nail down to 1 thing. I've already discussed why I believe Liverpool and ManUre are big and I've also mentioned Ajax recently.
Ajax is big because of their domestic and European success -- their youth program especially is legendary. But if you consider the last 10 years, they aren't very successful and have become a selling club. Does that mean they don't have a sustained history of success?
Despite that, I would still consider them big. Few clubs can boast of winning Europe 4 times, yet alone 3 of them in a row with almost no foreigners!

 

are you having a laugh im scottish and wuldnt watch that pish

 

Who is bigger...a club in china who has a billion fans but never won the cl or a club thats only got a few million fans and have won the cl once.....

 

As long as theres 2 sets of supporters on here [nothing against you arsenal lads btw]people will back there own team ,it was a good debate but now its withered away to * for tat .

 

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