are arsenal bigger than us

Why not. Celtic and Rangers have only won one European trophy each, just like Man City, Ipswich, West Ham United. I'd wager that these three were nowhere near as wealthy as the Old Firm but hey why let that get in the way of an emotional rant? There was a wide gap already, widening it further doesn't mean a lot. And if the spanish and Italian leagues can use money to expand their power why not England? Just because we had the opportunity and you didn't, there's no need to use it as a safety net of an argument all the time.

If Sunderland have the money good luck to them. You can always use money as a way of making excuses for the old Firm's struggles in Europe but then you were happy to grab the lion's share of money in Scottish football since the 1890's at the expense of Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen etc. That's why you two are called the old firm, right? Is it fair to deny them the chance to sustain a challenge to you two but then complain when clubs outside Scotland do the same to you?

 

alot of the support on this site is heaviley patriotic and narrow minded tbh

 

Can you please elaborate?

 

there is a difference between the european cup and the cup winner's cup. and did i say spanish and italian teams are right in what they are doing?? i didnt even say that arsenal and the english teams are wrong in doing so. how much of a gap did you see when u lot came to celtic park this tuesday. how much of a gap did man utd see when they came last season.

i have already said thrice that the spl follows the same pattern as the other leagues do in which the top teams are better financially but albiet on a comparable basis. there are astromical differences in the english league. also compare the difference in spending in the championship and the epl and you will get what i am saying

 

Calling you trigger was not ment as a insult it was just some banter maybe you would rather be called delboy....? If i was you i would think about joining a crochet forum if you are finding it a bit tough in here.
Go on call me jock if you like....or try jimmy....
I dont mind its all in fun.
Oh and bye the way.....nice work with what your doing for john hartson charity.

 

i will be taking european performances as a barometer here

before 1992, celtic had 1 european cup and so did man utd. chelsea, arsenal had none and they still dont. arsenal's emergance has been serious since the money came into england and its been 16 years to be precise. arsenal cant be termed better on the basis of 16 years alone when we have a longer history here. i rest my discussion here.

 

And im sure its the exact same on an arsenal forum or any team for that matter. what do you expect people ona celtic site to be passionate about?

 

theres passion, and then theres sheer ignorance.

by the way, it wasnt just arsenal who got money from sky, alot of teams got it, and not only in EPL, so saying "arsenal still havent won a european trophy after sky came into things" or whatever was said is just so stupid and short sighted.

i think alot of people on this website have no idea of things outside celtic.

dont get me wrong, im celtic through and through, and think their the best team ever, but theres peoples opinions, and then theres peoples patriotism who claim celtic ARE the best team ever, and will defend it going back to the day the club was founded.

you can bet your * that in the majority of champions league fixtures, celtic are going to be the under dog.

cant even be arsed with this thread any more. its just going to keep getting bigger and bigger, with the exact same things said.

i agree with near enough everything clockendpies has to say, and i bet he must find it extremly frustrating that he cannot get through to people here because they are celtic in the brain and not open to discussion

 

It's pointless having this debate, all arsenal fans will say arsenal are a bigger club, whilst all celtic fans will say the same about themselves. Now its just getting to pointless bickering in peoples attempts to prove things. Are there any moderators who could lock the topic to draw a line underneath it?

 

Well Aston Villa won the European cup once, and Nottingham Forest twice. Try white washing that. The point was that the English league has always been much stronger in depth than the Scottish league overall, with or without SKY.

On Tuesday I saw a team struggle to get at us despite having just under 60,000 people willing them on. I saw a team that was unlucky to concede two strange goals but lucky that we did not get that final touch in other instances.

Man Utd saw a gap that had Celtic battle bravely to grab a draw at home, but get blasted in the mirror game at old trafford and eventually finish at the bottom of their group.

So there is nothing wrong in having that pattern in domestic leagues when it conveniences you but not acceptible that such a heirarchy exists on a continental basis (inconvenient for you)? You can't have it both ways. There is a pecking order amongst European leagues just as there is within those individual leagues.

The old Firm have squeezed out the rest of Scotland's clubs for decades denying them from ever having a level playing field, England's heirarchy has been more egaliterian than that. The Old Firm's dominance in Scotland went WAY beyond the heirarchical orthodoxys of domestic football in England and elsewhere in Western Europe. It was a cartel in all but name, hence the term "old firm". Well in Europe there is also an old firm, made of clubs from England, Spain and Italy.

 

^^^^^^^^what she said! lol

 

Will somebody BAN the Arsenal fans off the site?

 

What is the point of this poll when 80% of celtic fans would never admit that Arsenal are bigger than Celtic, plain silly!

 

True, but since Arsenal fans have started showing up on the website the 80% has started going down..... Strange

 

^^^^^
i think this says it all
very well put

 

Boys I'll put this vote on the Arsenal forum I use you can have a look and I bet the results would be much greater than 80%

 

Why? most of them have been alright, passionate about their team and up for a bit of a laugh.Granted there has been a few * but look around you, there is enough of them already here.

Celtic proclaim to be " a club open to all", so I will respect those sentiments(unless they are at the *).

 

This is a ridiculous arguement that is really not measureable at all and I tried to stay away from but some fans on both sides are being totally closed minded and ignorant so I will try to bring things into prespective for eveyone.

Point 1: Footballing Success

Celtic
Scottish League Titles - 2nd
Scottish Cups - 1st (by 1)
Major European Trophies - 1 (European Cup)

Arsenal
English League Titles - 3rd
FA Cups - 2nd (by 1)
Major European Trophies - 1 (Cup Winners Cup)

All power to Celtic though some of you make it out to be some great advantage in history you have been more prestigious in your league and won a bigger trophy in Europe but not by much. No point touting 42 league wins to Arsenal's 13 makes more sense to compare the history and standing of the league not the amount of wins.

Point 2: Fan Base

This is pointless to argue over fans come and go Arsenal fans and Celtic fans both have die hards. You can't know whose fan base is bigger and you can't know who are more dedicated. Celtic fans and Arsenal fans say there's are more diehard is the same as being conceeded because you are touting yourself and your own fan base. I live in Canada and know several Arsenal fans and no Celtic fans does that mean that Arsenal rule Canada no of course not just the same as you can't say Celtic rule America. Some cases like Africa maybe tip to Arsenal because of the balance of coverage there of EPL vs. SPL but it is pointless to argue it.

This Point is moot it is the stupidest point of contention please think about it for a split second you don't know who 6.5 billion people support and no one else does.

Point 3: Globalization & Money

Arsenal are the biggest team in the biggest city in a country that as of only 200 years ago ruled what now accounts for about half the worlds population is there any wonder why SKY has a far reach. Of course the Revenue streams are higher for English based teams not even mentioning the fact that the country they play in has 10 times the population of Scotland this is simple Economics of scale people its not their fault they play in a bigger country.

Yet Celtic fans complain about it and completely ignore the fact that although Arsenal's wage bill is 2.2X the average wage bill (as of 07-08) of the non top four clubs and as of 2009 is 4th largest in the EPL.

No Celtic fan has mentioned that Celtic wage bill is 6.25X that of the non old firm clubs in the SPL and 15% larger than 2nd biggest and 350% larger than the third biggest. If money is ruining football than you have only yourselves and Rangers to look at for the down fall of Scottish football no?

Arsenal make large profits every year thanks to going into debt to build a sustainable stadium project to get capital for large transfers even though they make profit in the transfer market, maybe it would be wise for Celtic to take on a small debt to set up a large scouting network to set up a strong youth policy to generate wealth for transfers?

Point 4: Wrap Up

Arsenal rise to prominence can be led to the 1930's in London and England and a re-birth in the late 1990's which was ideal because of the explosion of globalization through internet and success in England led to Arsenal becoming the top tier of English football. Arsenal until the completion of the Emirates were not top table earner in the EPL they managed through fiscal prudence and Arsene Wenger's youth policy. Arsenal have made profit in the transfer market and with a large scouting network plus a healthy wage bill to grow and now with the Emirates complete although in large amount of sustainable debt in a risk reward scenario see the fruits of labour by being one of the top clubs in European football and the 5th highest revenue generating club in the world. Although people may believe that Arsenal rely solely on the Sky deal and Champions league to be sustainable is although important neglects to notice their finances boast and untouched bank fund that has grown to almost 100M a rainy day fund.

Celtic I don't know aswell obviously but have been consistent performers in Scottish league football owe most of their prominence to obvious success but also a rivalry that has transended ages Rangers v Celtic Protestants v Catholics. A large part of the Celtic growth in fan base relied on the latter part and emmigration by the Irish and Scottish spread the Celtic banner across the globe and continued success brought new fans in their adopted homelands. Celtic although being only the 23rd highest revenue generating have had their successes at the European level against much richer clubs even though they suffer in terms of wealth they do sit well in terms of debt ratio compared to other clubs.

Point 5: Result

Does it really f*cking matter both sides are showing inferoirity complex in the arguement and both clubs are big that is all. Thanks for reading tune in next time for more tales from reality.

 

Good points, no point in too much arguing, but I'm sticking by my guns and saying Celtic are a bigger club. But surprise surprise this is a Celtic forum :icon_mrgreen:

 

Gunnerkado, i'd just like to say that I've tried to be objective.

In no post of mine have I tried to suggest that Arsenal is necessrily a bigger club than Celtic or vice versa. All I've done is to try to appeal to the senses of those who have been rather arrogant towards Arsenal fans. I'm more than happy with your assessment and had been trying to say something similar before anyway. I would like to leave it here but I don't want to stand by and say nothing when I feel that someone is not being fair in a debate.