Ange Postecoglou

Trying to take a balanced view of things and what this season has shown so far.

Starting with the positives

1. We can create chances against teams of a higher calibre than us.
2. We have some really talented players in our squad who we paid a pittance for and has shown some good recruitment.
3. We still have the spirit domestically to get results over the line when not at our best.
4. We have largely gone through our domestic campaign in a highly efficient manner where we have created a big enough differential it is unlikely we lose many games, if it is maintained.

On the negative

1. What we thought was a good summer window is starting to seem more of a mixed bag but is too early to tell on the recruits behind Jota and CCV.
2. There are still deficiencies in our squad as a result of the above particularly in midfield and I would say right wing.
3. I feel we need to define roles for players in the team more clearly. E.g. Jota and Maeda if everyone is fit they are first and back up left winger? Haksabanovic is he a AM or a winger? Mooy is he cover at DCM or CM? I feel the squad is somewhat thrown together in the attacking positions and it is meaning we are not getting the best out of the players we have as they are being moved sides and positions regularly.
4. This is impacting our attacking play due to a lack of continuity.
5. We have lacked a ruthless streak all season DUTD game aside. Most of the other games we pass up far too many chances.
6. Our overall fitness still looks short and the physical limitations of players hampers us playing the system we are trying too. This is exposed at CL level.

On the negatives I do not necessarily think these are Ange’s fault or he is totally absolved of any blame for them. Injuries continue to be a concern we seem to continue to pick up a lot of these which impact on a number of points.

Points 3 and 4 of the negatives I believe are important ones, to compete in CL all our players need to know what is expected of them and how to play the positions they are being asked to in the system they are in. I think our pressing in particular doesn’t come across that way and needs to be more co-ordinated than the current chaotic approach.

I do believe it will take time for us to get better and address the above negatives but my worry is given the nature of where we are, can we break through the ceiling we have seen for so many years?

I think although we are relatively early in our journey the question may be coming sooner rather than later. There is a lot of interest in our players Juranovic, Abada, and ORiley to name a few. They are on long contracts and should all command good fees but how will we reinvest that along with the additional CL money?

Where our approach to transfers has been better under Ange, the longer we go on I would think the ability to pick up players from his past experiences will diminish. It will be interesting to see how Mark Lawwell can impact this going forward as he was in too late to do much in the summer. We won’t have a winter break this year to bed players in so we will need to be making moves during the World Cup down time with a view to finalising the deals in anticipation of January.

 

We havent been ripped wide open?
Leipzig was an absolute doing ffs.

 

The rage has calmed down, and i must say that i am pretty pleased with how we have performed. I am not pleased with the results though as Collins said.

We have been RIDICULOUSLY unlucky, and with just the slightest of luck we would at least be on 4 points now and end up with a minimum of 7. The future is still very, very bright and we will turn many of those chances in to goals next year if its in the CL or EL.

 

People have every right to demand better results than what we have seen so far. 1 point from 4 games is diabolical, no matter how it's dressed up.

There is no room for "projects", we need to start getting results in Europe or the opportunities to get into the groups dwindle and qualification routes get harder. This was a chance to start securing a better European future and we're currently * it up.

How long do we give a project? Ange doesn't have a track record of staying any longer than 3 years at any club. So we could possibly be looking at next season as his last. So, if we do qualify for CL next season we're back in pot 4 and there's little chance of getting as favourable a draw as what we've just had. Then what? another set of humpings? Ange and probably some of yhe players move on then the "project" has to start again.

I know that in European terms we currently are one, but this "building a project for the future" is a small club mentality, we need to get away from that.

 

Trust the process - Sutton

Completely agree here, however, to do this we need stability by retaining our best players. Otherwise, what the * is the point.

Difference in the league campaign is we have over six times more games against a lower, compared to CL, standard of opponent to develop, adapt and try win a league.

CL being only six games doesn’t offer enough exposure against a far superior standard of player in one season. A stable squad would need multiple seasons to cut their teeth and even then, it’s still * against the wind.

Also, bare minimum is UEL from 3rd place in CL. We need that European journey to last as long as possible to aid player development and to add extra motivation. The 4-game-cycle Vs the same teams in the SPL will get stale for some, fans and players alike plus having that Euro exposure, regardless of the placings, is an advertising tool when looking to bring in quality.

Ange’s process maybe have a magnifier focused on it regarding how we perform in Europe and most recently in the league but I for one will be keeping the faith that we aren’t the finished article banging our heads off a ceiling - more to come for sure!

HH

 

Getting beat 3-1 away from home by a team who spent £50m more than you in the summer isn’t a ‘doing’.

2 of their goals coming in the last 20 mins, 1 of which was an absolute gift.

We competed with them for the majority of the game and we should have scored more goals.

And that is the story of our season in Europe.

We absolutely need to be fitter, stronger and more clinical going forward at this level but it takes time.

Ange inherited a disaster 15 months ago and he’s got us back into the CL already. He now knows what needs to be done.

 

Going to have to disagree with you. The downfall of Celtic and actually Scottish football in general is that we aren't forward thinking enough and don't plan for the future, we want instant results.

Look to last year at one stage many people on here wanted rid of Ange after a few bad results, had they got their wish we would be in a much worse position now. If we dont make the CL or perform worse in the next campaign I think there will definitely be cause for alarm.

 

I do agree with this. The quick thrown ins, corners and goal kicks are too risky at this level. We often lose possession from them and because it’s been rushed, we aren’t in a solid structure to defend.

We also don’t have the stamina to sustain the same intensity at this level against elite players and athletes, as we do against SPFL teams.

The approach needs to be more calculated and measured.

 

Theres a time and a place for it, against the likes of madrid etc its silly.

As you said we look manic and it does indeed leach into all aspects of our game, sometimes ya want the players to calm it down and take the sting out of the game, even to regroup before going again.

Its little wonder the players are gassed after 60 minutes.

 

I think you’re talking *.

A high tempo doesn’t then equal having no composure. It’s the players that need to sort it out, not the tactics.

If you slow the game down you don’t get the chances, these teams are too good.

 

I think they opened us up more than anyone this season in the away match, but I wouldn't say they did last night, apart maybe from a couple of times when we were a goal down and chasing the game. But it was us who had more chances and probably the better ones, which (not wanting to get too fancy-pantsy here) was reflected in the xG.

We could have won that match last night and we absolutely should have won against Shakhtar. Like somebody said it's all coulda woulda shoulda and ultimately it'll go down as another European failure, but there are some positive signs there as well.

 

Playing for one-off results is a small club mentality. Nicking a 1-0 win is great on the night but ultimately gets you nowhere. Trying to build sustainable success with set principles is what teams like Brugge, Ajax, Bodo have done in Europe to good effect.

Brugge for example got pumped 5-0 last season by Leipzig yet now top their Champion's League group. They play a really high line defensively with an offside trap like us and are similarly aggressive out of possession. They're also attacking, as shown by the number of goals they've scored. They didn't achieve this by drastically changing course due to repeated disappointments. They kept with a style of play, continually exposing it to high calibre opposition. When their previous manager left for Ajax they promoted somebody from the coaching staff who had been involved in the setup for years and who shared the same principles.

I'm sure Ange will be determined to achieve some sort of impact on Europe before moving on, as he's openly stated is his goal. Now I'm not saying that Kennedy or Strachan is then promoted, but a similar style of coach could be appointed to build on the foundations Ange has laid. It's all about differing opinions at the end of the day, but I see that approach as at least giving us a shot at long-term success. And why not try? It's not like Celtic were exactly tearing up Europe before Ange arrived.

 

Nothing is being "dressed up". It would be a glaring error to omit the wider picture in our analysis of this UCL campaign. To focus on the result without heeding the details of where we went wrong or what has been improved, that is how children process things.

The only comparable example we can refer to in terms of budget and level of results in Europe would be Lenny or Strachan - neither of whom claimed to be building a project. They gave us a more standard package. Good old fashioned 4-4-2s and 4-5-1s and yeah they got us some very memorable results. Our long term strategy wasn't there though and ultimately these managers each left the club exactly where they left it.

All the while the tectonic plates of club football shifted. Ever more obscene sums of cash spend flippantly and the giants of European football spent the 2010s consolidating their power, while Celtic helplessly slipped down through European rankings.

The point being that if you want pragmatoball you're getting it with a Strachan or Lennon type, and you might win some games but the basis of a side that could push on in the knockouts was never close.

I put it to you that the project building mentality is the exact prescription our club needs at this time. There is simply no other route for a club with our resources. And while the results haven't went our way in this early chapter in the glorious Ange reign, I think anyone with a modicum of sense will take great encouragement from what we've seen so far. Either we buy into Ange's vision or we don't. But I ask you - if the Angeball project is abandoned, what then?

Ange now. Ange forever. Doubters will eat their words.

 

Love Ange’s project approach when it comes to the transfer market - we seem more organised, pro-active and all round better there than we have done in years.

I do wish he would be more pragmatic in Europe though. Not going in with a defensive midfield player is just so idealist, imo. I really can’t see us having success in Europe unless he’s willing to change his principles.

 

I kind of agree, especially with being more calculated and measured, but it's also a double-edged sword. If we slow our play down we lose a lot of what makes us dangerous. If we look to be more defensively solid, we probably don't create the same number of chances. Maybe it's just picking our moments a bit better, because the evidence is starting to show us that at this level, it's us who tires before the opposition.

Competing against sides who cost hundreds of millions isn't easy as we've witnessed. It requires some sort of... gimmick isn't the right word, but way of bridging the gap. Some sides put all their eggs in the sitting 10 men behind the ball basket, which sometimes works, but usually doesn't. We try to make them uncomfortable by playing a really high tempo, attacking affair, which has worked at putting us in position to score, but seen us come away with practically nothing after failing to convert those chances.

Hopefully this experience teaches Ange ways of tweaking what we do to become more solid whilst not diminishing our attacking threat. Part of that could just be filling gaps in the squad with better suited players, which may be an enforced change anyhow as 1 or 2 likely move on before next season.

 

This.
It'll work, potentially, eventually against the lower ranked teams but its unlikely to work against the mid/high ranked teams on a regular basis.

 

Get a manager who is willing to do a Steve Clarke when we're underdogs. Angeball is fine in Scotland. But Ange thinks the exact same tactics work in Europe. That is the problem.

In order to get results, we don't need Solbakken on the wing (somebody mentioned him), but two mandatory changes to the approach from last night.

1. Drop the high press to a mid-block.

2. Play a dedicated defensive/disruption midfielder.

These changes suit the players we have at our disposal, or will have them in the future. We're not going to get elite players that can do defense and attack equally well, or be able to press with the same intensity for 90 minutes.

Advantages of pressing at the half-way line:
1. Less ground to cover means less energy expenditure, and better stamina conservation.
2. Allowing the opposition to come out and try to break an organized defense means they leave space for our quick forwards to exploit. Kyogo would be great in a counterattacking system, lurking on the shoulders of CB-s.
3. It's easier to protect a smaller area of the pitch, improving the effectiveness of any press we do.
4. Our slower players (Taylor, O'Riley) can be more effective in defense.

Advantages of deploying a defensive specialist in the midfield:
1. Extra protection to the back line
2. The preceding point means other midfielders can feel safer going on daring forays forward, knowing a hard-tackling teammate will floor some unlucky * even if we lose the ball- it won't always be a mad dash to catch him.
3. In defensive phases, the rest of the team will have a fulcrum to rotate around, and to funnel opposition attacks towards, which leads to a higher chance of a successful dispossession of the opponent. This can lead to counterattacks by our fast trident, or even a chance to build attacks via possession. Admittedly, if the DM isn't great at retaining possession, we'll have to go direct.

Now, there's the finishing problem, but Ange's thought process hat everything else is fine boggles the mind. Yes, get the team a psychologist, but get Ange an Italian defense coach as an imposed Assistant Manager. Not John Kennedy.

 

I still think we've made major progress under Ange. When he was appointed I honestly thought it would take us 3 years to get back to competing with the huns, and he done it in one.

Europe is a worry with him. Away to Leipzig we should have changed the style a bit, and it was clear in the home game at half-time that Kyogo wasn't working, we needed Giakoumakis on earlier.

His subs in general have been killing games for us. Killed us against St Johnstone and now Leipzig. He has to realise how slow a midfield including McCarthy, Turnbull and Mooy is, probably the slowest in the SPFL.

At the same time, we've not half had some rotten luck with injuries. CCV, Starfelt, Jota, Abada, McGregor have all had lengthy periods out so far this season. I do honestly think yesterday goes a different way if Jota and McGregor were playing.

Form is an issue but I think, domestically at least, we'll eventually click again, we went through a similar sticky patch last year, around the same time.

I'd be expecting at least 3 points against Shaktar to finish the group off. Qualification is nearly impossible but I'd prefer we go out with a win, at least. There'll be no more excuses for the big man in Europe next year if it's a shambles again, hopefully he can sort it out.

 

We were crying out for a physical, dynamic midfielder in the Summer and since Ange has come in we've signed the following midfielders:

McCarthy (slow and immobile)

Ideguchi (slow, weak and immobile)

Mooy (slow and immobile)

Abildgaard (early days but slow and can't pass)

O'Riley (slow and immobile)

Hatate (weak and fitness issues)

Why on earth are we signing players that are polar opposites of what an Ange midfield is supposed to be? That's without mentioning Turnbull (see above). Our midfield has killed us this tournament, as myself and many others predicted beforehand.