2015 General Election Discussion Thread

Some of the nationalists are really starting to * me off as well. They've swapped radicalism for toeing the party line. Issues like the lowering of corporation tax and NATO membership are swepped under the carpet (I've even heard one SNP member saying that we should remain a part of NATO 'to change it from the inside' :smiley-laughing002 and they're increasingly hostile to other independentists and increasingly inward looking in their nationalism (I feel anyway).

There's a boy I know from the Greens who is constantly derided and dismissed by nationalists because he's too young to vote (by a year or two), despite making very valid arguments against SNP policies. I see a lot of Greens and socialist being bullied, really, into voting for the SNP in the coming election. Things have taken a really negative turn since the referendum, I think. We're back in that box of party politics, where they want us.

I haven't really seen such a change on here which is reassuring.

But if you think Labour are the party of the people, Regime, you're kidding yourself on. They're neoliberal; they're the party of corporations. Token leftist policies don't change that.

You're right though. We do need to make sure we're internationalist in our outlook.

 

Those policies are not swept under the carpet, they are there for people to see.
The fact remains, if people want Independence, the greens or the likes of ric are not going to be getting us that, as they would need to command a majority and that is not going to be happening.

The inward looking nationalism you and regime speak off is something I would/will disagree with but I will leave it at that.

 

Things have taken a nasty turn. Somebody called me a fascist and took a swing for me; in the West end of all places! I can be a *, but still. Even being compared to that EDL mob that turned up in George Square. As you can imagine, this puts me into a severe rage. It's bigoted. The referendum definitely codified he nationalist ideology. For some, they can't even step outside the bubble, or even listen or acknowledge any other political argument. The SNP economic plan for independence was pure poltical expediency, yet people defend this like jihadi defends the Quran. There's nothing wrong with playing politics with numbers, but at least acknowledge the political opportunism. The nationalist side has hardened, and the unionists will too. It's only a matter of time before we have a riot in the street. Unfortunately.

Every economy is neoliberal. What are the alternatives? Cuba? Venezuela?N Korea? To say Labour is neoliberal is like saying we breathe oxygen to live; that is the global economic model. Its about gradations within that system and how far you move to anarcho-capitalist neoliberalism. (Economic right). Labours policies bring us back from Blairism; higher taxes, less powerful media, and looking after the home first are definite hints of this shift and New Labour is dormant. That's why he got chosen over his brother; David was a known Blairite, he tried to fling the cloak of New Labour off before the leadership election, but it was too late. He was tarnished and they went with Ed. Ed has tried to really exercise the demons of that toxic legacy; Lamont being appointed in Scotland was part of this move; she was earthy and more working class, but she got ignored and tore apart by a better politician in Salmond. No way am I giving up on Labour when they are shifting back from Blairism; I haven't voted for them in 10 years, but I'm ready to fling my lot in with them.

On what I think we should do as a working society. We need to find ways to negotiate the economic terrain, working within it, to make working conditions and pay respectable to human dignity. The socialists got many things wrong, but what was always right was being unionised. The problem however has always been that the Labour movement in the UK is extremely antagonistic to corporations and management. Often establshing an us and them mentality. This is most extreme in Scotland, particularly Glasgow. This is no good for productivity and economic prosperity, and has been historically the case, as evidenced by the 70 and 80s. Obviously, the right have made great hay out of this fact; Socialism is perceived as cancerous, and in that form, it is. What you need is workforces unionising themselves to get better pay. If it is done centrally, say like the greens want to do and raise the NMW to £10 an hour, that will severely damage the economy because the ability for small businesses to operate, which are key in a healthy economy, do not materialise. If you have them in isolation, at Amazon for example, there the unioins can negotiate for better conditions and taking a cut of the profits which is rightfully theirs! This doesn't harm the economy because you are taking it right from the top of the chain. However, the psyche has always been defense and attack, if you work within the system, it is profitable for everyone.

 

Not one SNP member I know, and I know many, supports those policies. They're very much a compromise, like keeping the monarchy was during the referendum campaign, and they're put to one side.

 

Take it you voted aye then? :smiley-laughing002:

Now i dont bame you for taking the high ground, i'm sure your union jack bedspread and curtain set looks lovely when you tuck yourself in and watch the complete collection of royal weddings dvd at night, while you try to think up these farcical ideas about nationalist being some sort of '* S.S' for the SNP.

However my friend all you have shown from that rant is how much of a bigot you really are, respect others views and they'll respect yours!

 

:smiley-laughing002:
He talks as if people are narrow minded for voting yes as if it was voting for SNP. I disagree with many of SNP policies for an Independent Scotland, but just now as part of the UK the SNP are our best option. Said before I would vote for the Greens if they had a true leader.

 

Hmm,well I know lots of SNP members as well who endorse those policies. So we seem to know different members/activists. I dont think thats a surprise being honest.

As I said, the policies are in place and its upto the Individual to either accept that or leave/not join the SNP. Personally speaking looking to attract companies to Scotland is sensible, as is remaining in NATO.

As for the monarchy I aint fussed either way,as long as they pay for themselves.

 

Whats wrong with Harvie ? (not that I want to encourage your early support to the greens mind) I know he made a mess of last weeks tv debate (that question) but if you compare him to bennett its not a difficult choice.

 

Whats wrong with Harvie ? (not that I want to encourage your early support to the greens mind) I know he made a mess of last weeks tv debate (that question) but if you compare him to bennett its not a difficult choice.

 

I think he's talking about Natalie Bennett, and i'd agree with Cookiemonster. From what i've seen from the debate she's still learning and whenever she was given an opportunity to showcase herself she was either reiterating what Nicola was saying or just challenging Farage, not the signs of a strong progressive leader in my opinion

 

I think he's talking about Natalie Bennett, and i'd agree with Cookiemonster. From what i've seen from the debate she's still learning and whenever she was given an opportunity to showcase herself she was either reiterating what Nicola was saying or just challenging Farage, not the signs of a strong progressive leader in my opinion

 

My mistake, I wasnt clear enough, I thought he was meaning her so I was asking why not support Harvie now.
I believe for some reason, there seems to be a UK greens and a Scottish greens party, do you have any idea how/why that is ?

Oh and no I'm not very impressed with Bennett she seemed false and out of her depth being honest, then again Leanne Wood , was pretty much the same maybe not false but out of her depth. Both, as you say, seemed to agree with everything Sturgeon had to say.

 

My mistake, I wasnt clear enough, I thought he was meaning her so I was asking why not support Harvie now.
I believe for some reason, there seems to be a UK greens and a Scottish greens party, do you have any idea how/why that is ?

Oh and no I'm not very impressed with Bennett she seemed false and out of her depth being honest, then again Leanne Wood , was pretty much the same maybe not false but out of her depth. Both, as you say, seemed to agree with everything Sturgeon had to say.

 

No point in putting forward a reasoned argument against regime, he just pontificates and never answers any of the questions you pose him. I've replied to you many times sir and barely get a reply (if I do).

At least MGM was willing to answer you and you could have a debate.

 

No point in putting forward a reasoned argument against regime, he just pontificates and never answers any of the questions you pose him. I've replied to you many times sir and barely get a reply (if I do).

At least MGM was willing to answer you and you could have a debate.

 

MGM is also not a fan of plagiarism nor google either, just so he can cobble together some bullshit reply/post.

 

MGM is also not a fan of plagiarism nor google either, just so he can cobble together some bullshit reply/post.

 

Aye, that's not a surprise at all. We're at different ends of the political spectrum.

 

Aye, that's not a surprise at all. We're at different ends of the political spectrum.

 

As far as I know they cooperate but are independent, England & Wales do though, there's a N.Ireland greens as well. I've not paid enough attention to Harvie.

 

As far as I know they cooperate but are independent, England & Wales do though, there's a N.Ireland greens as well. I've not paid enough attention to Harvie.

 

I'm not going to bite at the bed-spread jibe, but I will have a nibble at something else. What high ground? Where?

I respect everyone's opinion to a degree, but I have to draw a line somewhere, bro. How can I respect your opinion when you just called me a bigot? What I said was hardly a rant. I showed Labour as a centre leftist party and said that to close the inequality gap we need to unionize workers. Hardly reactionary, eh? Vertie said I was in a centralist, which I am (centre-left), and he is obviously left of me and never the twain shall meet. I don't think that makes anyone a bigot, does it? I think that makes you a bigot. It was a fairly political neutral statement, I wasn't calling for a collective burning of Scottish literature. I'm basically a centre left Labour voter. That's all. That was probably you 3 years ago.

And who said anything about the Nazis?

I'm hurt. That's not true.

 

I'm not going to bite at the bed-spread jibe, but I will have a nibble at something else. What high ground? Where?

I respect everyone's opinion to a degree, but I have to draw a line somewhere, bro. How can I respect your opinion when you just called me a bigot? What I said was hardly a rant. I showed Labour as a centre leftist party and said that to close the inequality gap we need to unionize workers. Hardly reactionary, eh? Vertie said I was in a centralist, which I am (centre-left), and he is obviously left of me and never the twain shall meet. I don't think that makes anyone a bigot, does it? I think that makes you a bigot. It was a fairly political neutral statement, I wasn't calling for a collective burning of Scottish literature. I'm basically a centre left Labour voter. That's all. That was probably you 3 years ago.

And who said anything about the Nazis?

I'm hurt. That's not true.

 

Your name being 'The Regime' really doesn't help your arguments on here :smiley-laughing002:
All Labour has done is lie to Scotland during and after the referendum, never have and never will trust them especially that stuck up *, who would rather try and get himself in power than team up with SNP and get rid of the conservatives.
If he is a man of the people then that's what he should * do.

 

Your name being 'The Regime' really doesn't help your arguments on here :smiley-laughing002:
All Labour has done is lie to Scotland during and after the referendum, never have and never will trust them especially that stuck up *, who would rather try and get himself in power than team up with SNP and get rid of the conservatives.
If he is a man of the people then that's what he should * do.

 

For just now we are , that will ,likely, change in the years ahead.
(No, not a sly nor condescending dig before anyone jumps on that , its just what happens in life).

 

For just now we are , that will ,likely, change in the years ahead.
(No, not a sly nor condescending dig before anyone jumps on that , its just what happens in life).

 

If there were so many lies how did the Yes campaign manage to climb 20 points in 12 months? Hardly an effective tsunami of propaganda. And please name these lies? And how is that morally different to the Yes campaign's lies? What lies are legitimate and which aren't? The SNP lied in the White Paper?

Is it the lies or that you didn't win you're jaded about?

 

If there were so many lies how did the Yes campaign manage to climb 20 points in 12 months? Hardly an effective tsunami of propaganda. And please name these lies? And how is that morally different to the Yes campaign's lies? What lies are legitimate and which aren't? The SNP lied in the White Paper?

Is it the lies or that you didn't win you're jaded about?

 

Is this you?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnm2N16GVCY[/ame]

 

Is this you?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnm2N16GVCY[/ame]