Paulo Bernardo

His positional sense allows him to affect the game. And is always involved.. he picks up so many 2nd balls..

 

You have to interpret statistics, though. By most of the stats you quote, Scales is a more technical player than Hatate. Of course, that's an extreme example; but it's still true that Engels and Bernardo are quite different players who do somewhat different things on the pitch. Look, let me put my money where my mouth is: unless he gets a bad injury, I predict Engels will be pulling off things Bernardo isn't capable of by this time next year.

Engels usually has a good workrate and I admit he runs a lot, so I'm not saying his workrate is poor; but there have been a few times he's been slow to apply pressure. One of those times led to a goal (against Aberdeen). I've never seen Bernardo give less than 110% in the press or in defensive tracking.

Bernardo is a really good player with a lot of potential. I actually really like him. I just can't agree that he is great technically.

 

Thats not really true either. Hatate would come out on top of Scales in certain stats, such as assists, key passes, passes into the final third, shots on target, conversion rate.
You could split it into positions also, of which Engels and Bernardo play the same position. And domestically Bernardo comes out of nearly all of them but one.

Well mate iv seen Bernardo give a few performances this season iv not yet seen Engels achieve. Rangers at home being a standout. Engels might in the long term. Im not writing him off, but im far from blown away with what iv seen so far and he isnt near as good technically as you are making out.

 

That's not really the point. It was an extreme example of how statistics have to be interpreted. There are lots of reasons why Beranardo might have some better stats: the areas they get the majority of their touches might be (are) different and and in slightly different situations, attention from opposition players aware of Engels' threat, starting games versus coming on as a sub, different levels of risk-taking, Bernardo's exceptional awareness compensating for his (IMO- I know you don't agree) average technique. There has to be interpretation. I don't know what source you are using btw, so it's difficult for me to come ip with an alternative interpretation.

I actually agree that Bernardo has given performances Engels has yet to show! We agree that Bernardo is a great player. The only place we disagree is that I think he's a bang average technician and Engels isn't. Broony was a better player than Ki; but Ki was a much better technician. I look at players with strong technical ability, like McGregor, Kyogo and Valle and their control and weight and direction of pass look much more like those of Engels than those of Bernardo. They also have a magic ability to often control bad passes hit at them that bounce off normal players (like Bernardo). Note that I'm not saying Bernardo has bad technique either: he doesn't.

So, let's revisit this in a year. If I am right, we'll all be raving about Engels' technique and if you are right, we won't.

 

Interesting chat this so will give my tuppence worth - it's too early to predict what Engel's outcome will be, but with his price tag comes a lot of expectation which I think must be quite jarring for a young player - especially when you come in hitting the ground running and go off the boil slightly. His potential is clear though, and it'll be great to see him with a full year under his belt.

As for Bernie, I think his potential was also clear when he first arrived. He has really worked his socks off the past year and continues to improve his game#, and personally, I would be starting him now over Engels. Where they differ, is that Bernardo can do the basics better, and he makes it look easy (a bit like Rogic could) - which is credit to his technical ability and keeping calm under pressure.

It's a great position we find ourselves in having two very talented midfielders that are only going to get better.

 

Are you conflating “technique” and technical quality? Because it someone hits 12 shots and doesnt score any, but looks good hitting them, i wouldnt say that holds much ground.

Thats not what im saying at all.. im not saying Engels might not develop into a great player. Theres a multitude of factors which may positively or negatively affect their development.
All im saying at the moment is that Bernardo is a better all round player and isnt getting a fair crack of the whip and has merited a starting place for a while.

 

If he doesn't start today then it's entirely due to Rodgers being * minded and wanting to show he knows best and won't give in to fan pressure.

 

I don't know about conflation, mate. For me, technique and technical quality aren't two separate things that can then be conflated. It's like saying I'm conflating women and people. The former is one of the elements that go to make up the latter. So for me, technique is an intrinsic part of technical quality.

Look, I can be wrong and have been wrong before on here; but FWIW, I genuinely can't understand how anyone can look at Bernardo and say he's better technically than Engels (and I mean that literally and not as a sly dig- I do respect you). It's one of those where if I turn out to be wrong about this, I'm going to start doubting everything I think I see when I watch a game of football.

Clearly, you see things very differently. I suggest we come back in a year and see who is right. For now, we agree that Bernardo is a very good player and I can probably be persuaded that in the short term, Bernardo is a better player for us on current form.

 

No disrespect to Engels, but I think Bernado deserves his start. Hopefully Engels will still come good., But as a No.6.

 

He was very good today, this guy is a class act.

 

Has to be starting now, it's there for all to see. That being said, I think Mccowan should be along side him. Hatate and Engles have got the quality but at the moment, they're not at it.

 

We're far better when he plays.