Brendan Rodgers Discussion Thread

That's exactly it though mate. We should have started more defensively or at least changed it when it was obvious to everyone we were getting overrun.

 

The sad thing is mate they didn't capitalise on all our mistakes. They could easily have scored 12 last night.

 

Im sorry but I still completely disagree. Our defence isnt *. For the reason that worse defences have went to Dortmund and played a lot better.

Even more than that, iv seen worse celtic defences with a lot less investment going to what I would perceive to be stronger sides (at that time) and getting results. Ambrose, Kelvin Wilson, Mark Wilson, McManus, Caldwell… all part of Celtic teams that achieved big results in europe.

We were cut open last night because of the glaring spaces and gaps due to a lack of shape and organisation. Also turning the ball over after players have committed themselves forward leaving huge gaps and space which Dortmund exploited. Teams loke St Johnstone are not able to punish us the way Dortmund are.
There is not enough caution to our play and we are far too expansive and wreckless.

Id also add that individual errors are more likely to happen when we are less organised. We were very lucky that Schmeichel stayed on the pitch.

Iv seen it all to often with Rodgers. He has one way of playing.

 

No one could..

This was an obvious change to mate. Or even a flat midfield 3 just infront of the defence and compact. The 2 wingers a lot deeper, helping out the fullbacks and Kyogo almost as a 10 for a bit..

What do we do? Still chased down every ball in their defensive third, relentlessly and had it passed around us with ease. Almost everytime they did that they did it quick and quite direct, running virtually in on goal or had overloads on our defence..

Suicidal beyond belief..

I still can't believe he didn't try and change it and sit deep for half hour to let us get back in to it....and get a * breather. It was high tempo stuff and we were chasing shadows snd out of breath 10 minutes in..

 

You just cant get swamped in midfield like we did last night.....
We need a plan B in formation, I would agree that our pressing and attacking philosophy can remain, but it needs tempered in the formation....
4-4-2. 4-5-1, 4-1-3-2......just something to give cover in midfield and protection between midfield and defence....can we achieve that with the players that we have - honestly I don't know, but we don't have a choice other than to try something a little different........

 

I get why we started with the press. It's been well drilled and successful all through from pre season til before last night..

Before the game Dortmund looked suspect in games, being pressed high..

It was just mental to carry it on when it wasn't working and they were passing through or bypassing it directly with ease. You then go * letting Maeda go on a one man mission and then be taking out the equation with Taylor isolated etc..

It was the failure to react to what was happening early on that was the biggest disappointment for me..

 

He said he isn't going to change it up

 

I’d take that with a pinch of salt. I heard his interview after the game but he was clearly shell shocked because he mumbled his way through it. He is never going to admit in an interview that he will change it. I’d be amazed if we play as open in Bergamo however.

 

The sad thing is, our board invested in the team, for once. Even I had a bit of hope after Maeda's goal. I do blame Rodgers for deciding Iwata was surplus to requirements.

 

I agree, we have to be clever and hard to break down and pick and choose our times to break and press. It cant be every time as we cant sustain any sort of defensive shape or structure.

Rodgers has to get out of his own way adapt his game plan, especially in away games, but in all his years as Celtic manager he hasnt been able to mature from the tactical naivety which he continues to display.

 

We should have.

 

We would do better with Dortmund’s back line, no doubt about that, but if we setup as we did yesterday we’d still be in for a long, long night.

If anyone has played in defence they’ll know how difficult it it to deal with runners from midfield. Dortmund would beat our press, play through our midfield as though it wasn’t there, and then be free to have a midfielder run at our backline, with options either side of him, and often one of our own wing-backs out of position. Once a midfielder has broken free and is running at a defensive line, it’s already a precarious situation at this level, almost irrespective of who forms that backline.

Our defensive philosophy doesn’t seem to change between the Champions League and the SPFL, which is mental. We treat the back 4 as the entirety of our defensive setup, whereas they should really be the last line of defence. When they’re exposed, we’re already in trouble.

I would honestly have at least two sitting midfielders (proper defensive mids) sitting in front of the back 4 when we’re away from home on the CL. We did it with Lambert and Lennon, and even Petrov would contribute to the defensive side. We did it with the likes of Robson, Brown and Donati, and then again with Wanyama, Brown and Ledley.

It’s so telling that despite playing at home and having better individual players all over the park, Dortmund still started with a proper DM in Emre Can. They didn’t sacrifice their principles in doing so, and certainly didn’t park the bus. If anything it allows them to apply their principles of attacking football.

We refuse to, again and again, despite the historical evidence of successful Celtic sides in Europe all utilising defensive midfielders, structure, physicality etc. It’s the definition of insanity.

 

Yesterday was utterly embarrassing and yes, Rodgers could have gone more cautious, but tbh I wanted us to go up against them and play our game, so I can't criticise him too much. My anger is more with the players and how * cowardly they get when under pressure away from home in Europe. Aye, some of that comes from the manager, but surely to * the blame has to go on them first and foremost when it's a question of mentality, balls, bravery.

 

For me you could have tweaked our approach without ditching his principles. One of them should have been tasked with sticking to Brandt. Maeda and Kuhn should have been pulled back and the full backs kept out in position not tucked in next to the centre backs.

Given the wingers were still high or pulled in the park and the full backs were tucked in their full backs had the freedom of the park on either side and Brandt drifted wide because the space was there.

Being honest specific plans like that need worked on so changing in game wouldn’t have been easy. However, getting a proper volume of bodies defending around the edge of our box would have made it a lot harder for them to just run through us.

However, despite how bad our set up was the team just looked like rabbits in the headlights and played like they had forgot all basics of football. We were worse last night than most of our opponents have been against us domestically. At least we have often been made work to score goals this season, we just gifted them chance after chance. It didn’t require a great amount of skill just a willingness to run at us.

 

Genuine question, but do we have a couple of sports psychologists? Even just one?

Pretty sure every team worth their salt have a few on roster. Jesus, we need it more than anything.

There is something deeply wrong with our mentality and mindset against the best teams. Lack of quality I can understand, but every single year we seem to take these pastings, something that has been happening for at least 10 years.

Why are we still getting "spooked" like this? Why are we still making the same mistakes over and over again? Why are we conceding a goal just after we equalised? Why do we struggle to pass the ball 5 yards under the slightest bit of pressure?

Our lack of mental fortitude and toughness at this level is utterly depressing and one of the biggest issues we have. It's virtually embedded in the club's culture at this point. So what steps are we taking to ensure this no longer continues?

 

I do fullt agree with cdms. There is a reason why Wanyama got so many MOTM for us in europe.

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If Lennon knew how to do one thing, it was set us up to play better opposition. On those European nights like against Barca, we were structured, well-drilled, and disciplined.

What worries me is that Rodgers doesn't appear to be considering adopting a similar approach. He said last night how we play is doing well domestically so we're not going to just park the bus. But what's one got to do with the other? These are professionals, you can't give them two tactics and switch between as and when?

I never had him down for one that was pigheaded about tactics. Ange, aye. But I always had Rodgers pegged as a pragmatist.