Brendan Rodgers Discussion Thread

I agree, I don't see us postponing games die to Asian cup. You're right in saying it will give us a load of games to cramb in over an 8 week period which would he a struggle.

The other reason is if we postpone those games off the back of the winter break. The guys that arnt going away ie most of the squad would be looking at almost 2 months without a game. That would completely * up any momentum or rhythm that they are in and would essentially need a full preseason again before starting back. The risk of injuries would be massive with a break that long in middle of the season

 

How many big performers do we actually have at any one time, though? If we take your 3 examples: CCV frankly deserves the extra money and it won't break the bank to increase the wage of one player in line with any better signings that arrive. CM did too a year or two ago; but he has declined noticeably now. He's still good enough for Celtic, don't get me wrong; but he's hardly the standout performer he used to be. Kyogo still hasn't done it at CL level (I'm not saying that's his fault or that he can't do so, just that he can't legitimately expect big money until he has and indeed he will genuinely be worth the money if and when he has).

Mostly we just have pretty average players who don't have any case for arguing for more money or young players we will sell just when they get good enough to demand big wages.

 

I reckon that Calmac shout is madness mate.

But for me, Hatate, O’Riley, CCV, Calmac, Kyogo and AJ would all be within their rights to unless the player on big money comes in and be’s a Larsson.

 

Really? I'm honestly surprised to hear that, because his deterioration seems really obvious to me. He's still a good player; but I wouldn't call him a great player anymore and I no longer consider him one of our 2 or 3 best players.

 

* madness that to me.

 

Whose fault is it then for, as you say 'come out of the window weaker than we went in'? BR inherited a treble winning team minus Mooy, Jota and Starfelt, so was to essentially build on from a position of strength. BR was brought in early, had loads of time to assess what he needed/wanted and again, can you tell me a single one of those players brought in was not without his full knowledge, consent and more than likely was personally involved in.

My point is that this does not rest on the Board entirely. My point is that the manager is not blameless in this, and yet your taking him at his word when surely you have to know this guy is a repeated proven liar. BR negotiated and signed a contract - he made sure it was a 3 year contract and made the club do away with a 30-odd year old policy of 1 year rolling contracts in the process as one of the conditions of his return.

And if that was one of the conditions of his return, then considering part of why he claims he left in the first place was because of transfer dealings and budget, you better believe with the bargaining chip of Celtic coming and wanting him to come back that he and his agents etc would have made sure he had provisions for that also in that contract.

And this, at his first transfer window would naturally be when his stock (for lack of a better word) was high.

You cannot tell me that the Board have sat there and gone out of their way to lure Rodgers back without him making sure in those negotiations... and I'm not just talking about vague promises but agreements in writing... that he would have considerable control etc in regards to budget/transfers etc. Don't doubt he got what he would've asked for.

Whether he knows what to do with it is another matter entirely.

When he was Liverpool manager he signed 33 players. Not a whole lot of them turned into Anfield heroes, Coutinho, Firmino and Milner aside. Of those 3 only Firmino cost them what would be totally beyond us (£29m), while Coutinho (£6.5m) & Milner was free. Elsewhere there were qualified successes - at least for a period, such as Dean Sturridge (who did well with Suarez but dropped way off later) or Adam Lallana (who Liverpool never really saw the best of under Rodgers and wasn't until Klopp came along that he started to replicate the sort of form he'd shown at Southampton), while spunked money on the likes of Balotelli and Ricky Lambert. Or Benteke, who was on paper a good signing on arrival, but turned out a bit of a dud at Liverpool and ever after, even if they were able to recoup most of their money back from. Even when he signed a player he knew well and wanted (Joe Allen) it started out ok but was only with kind of meh to bit-part results.

In total, BR spent nearly £300m in total on transfer fees, all for the grand total of 1 win in 12 CL group stage matches as Liverpool boss.

At Leicester, from his arrival the structure was that there was a 3 man panel, comprised of director of football John Rudkin, Head of Recruitment Lee Congerton (a familiar name to all here no doubt) and Rodgers himself. And it could be said this worked pretty well generally speaking for a while. However, in summer 2022 following Congerton's departure for Atalanta in Italy, Rodgers revealed he had taken on even more responsibility in regards the recruiting of players... And look at the results of what happened next.

And we all know about here at Celtic, with the exception of Sinclair, Dembele and Edouard there is not a massive rate of success. Or take Ryan Christie, who was signed by RD, BR sent him out on loan to Aberdeen for the better part of 18 months in 2 spells. In 2019 Lennon revealed that in summer 2018 when Celtic were linked to John McGinn and that fell through, it was because Lennon (Hibs boss at the time) had made it clear to Celtic they could have McGinn for the price Celtic had offered but also for Christie on loan to them (at the end of which time Christie would be out of contract).

Celtic ultimately chose to not go through with the McGinn deal and kept Christie and as we saw what happened when given a chance, but it wasn't out of nowhere and noone can tell me Rodgers wasn't part of that decision either. But here is a question, how much of Christie's improvement was actually because of Rodgers? And knowing what we know now, would we have been better off going for that deal to bring McGinn here and let Christie go? Food for thought.

But I digress. The point I am getting at here, is that whether he has had megabucks or not, BR's record in the transfer market is not exactly glowing and for that to be put entirely at the culpability of the Board (who are not blameless admittedly) without shouldering a significant portion of that himself is entirely disengenious and it's convenient for him to point the finger rather than say that the buck stops with me, so to speak.

Ultimately, after all you know about the man, why would you believe a proven liar and simply take his word at face value other than because you're frustrated and the Board are an easy target and just happen to want to believe what he says. A little bit of critical thinking needs to be applied here and not just taking what he says as gospel.

In all honesty, I want nothing more for BR to prove me wrong and to make me eat my words, because at the end all I want is for Celtic to be successful and if he can make it so, then that is fantastic and I will gladly line up and have my slice of humble pie. But at this stage all of any of that is, is a very big IF. I am not going to take him merely at his word however, but, judge from what I can observe (which is ironic I know, because, lol, blind), but from what are tangible results, performances, improvements and track records.

 

Sensible post, @Taz . I personally think he and the board had a deal where both sides gave up on something. He gained a 3 year contract and the right to pick positions to be strengthened in exchange for giving up on big signings.

 

He's slower. his touch is less secure, his passing less accurate and his decision making more rushed due to the preceding.

 

Not so sure about that. I think it is part of his ego wouldn't allow that for a start. He believes he can develop and improve players and admittedly he has done that in the past or turned players that were struggling and fine tuned them. There is undeniable proof of this and is something he has always done, from his days at Chelsea right through including here at Celtic, such as getting the best from Rogic and Forrest or helping Brown turn back the clock etc.

He said he had wanted a break when he 'parted company' with Leicester and could've just as easily waited as we all know that a lot of EPL jobs that came along while he was on his sabbatical, so to speak, that would be immediately linked to. He knows he could've waited. Everyone does, and picked when it suited him.

But for Celtic to go out after him says it all. It wasn't a case of him coming cap in hand to Celtic. Even in the most recent statement of the club re the financial results, that it was said that Celtic wanted Rodgers and went after him. In truth DD would've had a lot to do with that, and is emblematic of his business practices, that he gets who he wants in place and leaves them to it for the most part.

So BR was sitting down at the negotiating table with plenty of bargaining chips in his favour.

To get his 3 year deal that he would've demanded, Celtic would've backed down and comprimised, but it was also a necessary thing also and Desmond & Celtic would've been ok with that because it would send a loud message, especially the fans, that this guy is not going to jump ship at literally the first EPL job etc that comes by this time.

The clock is ticking down on that 3 year deal now, but hypothetical, fast forward so he is still here in 2025 with a year to go and is offered an extension then... does he sign? Does he let the clock run down? Will that new deal be another 3 years? What has Celtic achieved in these 2 years before then?

People sign contracts in football all the time, but how often are they not seen through? Jota signed perm deal in 2022. A year later was gone. If a week is a long time in football tnen 2 years and even 3 is a very long way off.

 

@Taz: Isn't the very fact that his record before, with his mate Congerton, itself another good reason to think that we wouldn't have agreed to change our recruitment structure this time to go back to one where Rodgers had a major say?

 

If he had plenty of bargaining chips, and was promised a lot more than has been delivered, I'd expect him to be livid, and yet, he's rather more controlled in his statements than in his first stint. He is constantly downplaying expectations.

 

Is it now just ignored that the higher calibre player will keep their options open till near the end of the window?

We've dome the business we need to do I.e. sourcing promising talent and bringing them in. So that's fine.

Then you look to bring in higher quality/experience which is a lot more difficult for a few reasons - finance's, club stature, the league we play in and more importantly good players having more options.

So keeping this in mind, there's always a chance these deals don't go through in time. It doesn't mean we're negligent, it means it's risky by nature and won't always go in our favour.

 

Again, I point to ego and a lot of chips in his favour when he was sitting at the negotiation table. Celtic persued him, not him coming back cap in hand to Celtic and rightly or wrongly, Celtic would've had to do a lot of the accomodating and not the other way around.

 

This exactly. All Summer to know what was required, millions in the bank and sitting holding hands praying someone will return our phonecall at 11pm on the 1st. Useless *.

 

Everyone is still getting used to the new manager etc, Hatate didn't help v Feyenoord nor the system(the old argument around a DM frustratingly apt again)

He didn't have a good game either don't get me wrong, but was MOTM v The Huns where he absolutely bossed it and lead by example..

There's nothing wrong with his touch as proved by his killer ball last week for Kyogo..

Pace, maybe there are signs of losing a little..

But he remains our most important player, above all the rest.

 

Think we'll defo sign a 3rd ST in January, with Kyogo and Oh away(few chances but jury out on)

 

IMO he was man of the match against the Huns because of that first half where he was given acres of space. He wasn't that great second half.

By "touch" I mean close control under pressure not ability to pick a pass. The ball used to stick to his feet even when pinged in and when under severe pressure. That isn't so anymore.

 

Dean Sturridge never played for Liverpool


It was his nephew Daniel

 

I disagree with pretty much all that mate,