Scottish Leaders Election Debate Tonight!

I think the SNP have done incredibly well in hard times with public services. I believe their investment in social housing, nursery care, free school meals, staying on at school, apprenticeships and free university fees will, given enough time, give young Scots a very good start and a very skilled workforce. The full effect of this compared to the rUK may only become apparent over the next 15 years but the net result should be a relatively well nourished/mentally developed children -vital for cognitive development in childhood, relatively debt-free young adults, highly educated/skilled young * population. The trick is to make it possible for them to stay in Scotland but I think that will also happen as this could make us very attractive to companies considering coming here. However, it is a mid term project and people need patience to see the end result. People with any wisdom can see NOW that the SNP are going the right way about it. In many ways I think they are a model social democratic government balancing the need to grow our human potential for the economy but using investment in social services.

In some ways the UK has forgotten about the young and chasing the grey vote. The SNP has balanced this much better and as well as more home care, free hospital parking, free prescriptions etc has also invested heavily in the mid term project of improving our human potential by making for healthier, more educated, better educated and trained kids and young adults.

 

13pc=huns

 

Time is ripe for a new socialist party; Manchester, Liverpool, Yorkshire, they all gave birth to the Labour Party pretty much along with Glasgow.

Still find it incredible that they may lose all their seats in Glasgow. Wouldn't have imagined it a year ago, unthinkable. I think the prospect of the Tories will exercise the vote, though.

 

Its just a sample but the percentage for Nicola is significantly higher than the average percentage in polls saying they will vote SNP. By this evening 2000 people will probably have joined the SNP in 24 hours. So I have little doubt that Nicola's performance will increase the SNP vote in Scotland at the expense of Labour. Probably rise the SNP a couple of percentage points at least.

 

I think this actually happened a few years ago but just post-dates the last WM election when Lab were given one last 'vote SNP get tory' sort of backing. The next year the SNP did very well at the Holyroods, then the indyref. I think 4 years ago a lot of Scots started permanently shifting to SNP from Labour but its just taken now for a WM election to come along. The vast majority who are now SNP feel absolutely betrayed by Labour and will never go back. If they ever do it would have to be an entirely different party with totally different kind of people making up the party and practically none of the current MPs. Cannot see that happening given the way the MP selection system works

 

I think the indy ref was huge, paradigm shift just about covers it

 

Agreed. But I also think 2011 was representative of the fact Scottish Labour were absolutely shambolic, the SNP were not, they were capable and had done it for 4 years at this level.

U.K. wide general election is a totally different game - lets see how we do.

Quietly confident, but then I was too with the referendum.

 

totally agree in terms of politicisation but I think the process kick started soon after the last WM elections. The main stream media try and portray it as nationalism but in reality its largely populated by people who just want to escape Westminster politics and indy or deep devolution is the only vehicle viable at present.

Even what little devo we already have has been used very very well in terms of public services - no uni fees, free school meals, much more free nursery places, prescriptions, free hospital parking, frozen council tax, apprenticeships, big increase in building new social housing, more free elderly home care, stopping/mitigating bedroom tax. The average per head tax take is higher in Scotland but the average family also saves a * of a lot of money on the free provisions for all/many. That is practical modern socialism in action and a forward thinking way of making kids and young adults as healthy, happy, educated, debt free as possible within the constraints of a recession IMO.

 

I wish folks would stop romanticising about Labour.

This Labour Party bears no semblance whatsoever to the one that many working class Scots once put their faith in.

TBH, I'd rather have a Tory Govt than a Labour one. At least you know what you're going to get with the Conservatives... Cameron will stab you in the face with a '* you' - Miliband however will stick the knife between your shoulder-blades whilst giving you a hug!

His '* yes I'm tough enough' moment on Paxman was embarrassing! No Ed - you are not 'tough'. You are a political weakling. Jeez, the guy even went on to suggest in that interview that we are subservient to the US.

The Unions backed the wrong brother!

There's only one choice for me... SNP.

 

... and don't even get me started on that * Jim Murphy. The mans public addresses remind me of Bomber Broon standing on the steps of Mordor demanding to know 'where arra deeds'

 

I was never confident about indyref. I had seen stats on certain groups like the million pensioners and half a million non-Scottish born UK born folk being hard line 75pc NOs. I also knew the 15pc Tory vote had similar trends. A good number of people overlapped more than one of the NO trending demographics but still that is a lot of people and I knew we were up against it to make up for that solidly NO block. I knew then that we needed to win over 40pc of the Labour voters to back indy to win. We fell short at about 30 or so. IMO it was most likely the Labour voters sitting on the fence who were taken in by the VOW. Depending on which poll you believe this was either enough to take YES to a much narrower 48-52 defeat or was enough to take yes over the winning line and win by the reverse of that. Probably the truth is that if the Vow had not been given it would have been about 50-50.

NB- this all assumes the postal vote was no rigged.

 

Labour transformed the lives of 10s of millions and dragged so many people up in the period 45-75. However, they were infiltrated - IMO by design/possibly by M15-and turned into something that I would describe as centre-right neo-con lite US Democrats type party.

 

One boost Labour will get from the leaders dabate is that the English media were portraying the SNP like a Jacobite army of mouth frothing nationalists coming to London to torch it. They were doing that to scare the floating voters towards the Tory party. However, last night Nicola Sturgeon exploded this myth and spoke the language of a progressive that appealed to many in England and totally removed the fear spin put on the possibility of an SNP-Lab dominated govt. Not only has the spin been exploded but there must be a lot of English people realising that their press has been brainwashing them about the SNP.

 

I just hope people are not looking for the SNP to become some kind of socialist haven either. People have fought long and hard to get the SNP were they are and are certainly not going to let the likes of ric screw it up.

 

I know you're not socialist but what's wrong with RIC?

 

They have gained far more from being attached to the YES campaign than they contributed. They are a minority party/group who have gained massively but seem to think they should get a seat at the big table which could be dangerous for the larger movement.
They specifically (Gunt wont like this) targeted the lower end of the possible YES vote and helped get them to register,which was a good thing, however it was a very cynical ploy on their part.
During the YES campaign, maybe I was just unfortunate or maybe they were :icon_mrgreen:, I would get paired up with various different ric activists and invariably their vision of an Independent Scotland was a place that would increase the tax's payable on the "rich" because "they can afford it".
I never did get a coherent answer as to what rich was, ie income or savings amounts.

Also read this and its rather scary being honest. Without naming anyone from this forum, it would fit in with their bollocks as well

https://radicalindependencedundee.wordpress.com/

The second part of Duncan’s contribution was on money and complementary currencies. The current money system is bank money. This means that 97% of the money supply is created out of nothing by commercial banks when they lend to individuals or companies. They then charge the borrowers in this money. The main problems with this system of bank money are that it is:

• growth dependent, and leads to

• private gain, public loss
• impoverished peripheral economies

We need therefore to change to a system that is based on:
• more money and less debt
This is possible as money is essentially a social construct – an agreement by people to use something as a medium of exchange that is based on trust. We can therefore create our own currency. In the first instance this can be a complementary currency, one that would run alongside sterling. A complementary currency is:

• an alternative means of exchange
• that connects unmet needs with unused resources
• and can fulfil specific social, economic and environmental goals.

Duncan then outlined a project he is working on for such a currency for Scotland:

• a new non convertible national complementary currency
• created debt free
• circulates permanently
• distributed equally to every “eligible” person in Scotland
• a free/low cost public digital payment system available to all

This is an ongoing project and there are still details to be worked out. The benefits of a successful complementary currency include:

• generating additional spending in the local economy
• the potential to become the main domestic currency in an independent Scotland.

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Or perhaps we could just use glass beads and Jockquids

 

Thank * there's someone else. Every time I try and tell people that the SNP are not the leftie party people think they are I get shot down. Center-left certainly, but with some overly rightie leanings here and there.

 

Natalie Bennett is a very intellectual woman - you can tell. However, she is just not a leader. She often gets caught wanting when placed under pressure, which is a shame. Its a hard skill to master, staying composed and still eloquently putting forward your ideas when pressured like that.

 

You just need to look at the make up of the SNP to see that they are not massively left leaning (financially/policy wise anyway) from Eck downwards or is there many socialist investment bankers out there :smiley-laughing002:
What the SNP have been successful in doing, is attracting support from people who would possibly be kind off conservative, but want/don't mind paying more into a system that helps more people.
IF that is changed just because of the kind of old style labour supporter that is joining the SNP now, then the SNP will have to rid its self of these people. As it would lead to massive divides opening up in the party and at the end of the day we have got to where we are without them and will get there in the end.

Aye she did look uncomfortable at certain points. Lets be honest however the Greens only got that national platform out of luck more than anything else (ie Cameron). Green issues are something the main parties, imo ,should have stitched up themselves being honest.