Diego Costa

Has McGeady actually ever said he considers himself irish? I think people are suggesting he chose to play for Ireland because he feels Irish but it perhaps it was just because Ireland are a better team than scotland?

 

What rules? Irish citizenship rules? I hope you're not under the impression that FIFA has a grandparent rule. Charlie Mulgrew tried to claim he could play for the US because he had an American grandparent, but our (I'm American) nationality laws don't work that way. And when you say "as Scottish" then you're making it quantitative. There are no degrees of Scottishness. There is just Scottish or not Scottish. Irish or not Irish. McGeady had the choice between the two. He picked Ireland. Also, he didn't necessarily picked them because of "feeling" as much as McCarthy did I believe, he was the result of a ridiculous rule for Scottish youth internationals. Ireland swooped in and won him with no contest due to Scotland shooting itself in the foot.

Hmm, you say you know it's not quantitative, but then you use quantitative terms. More than, less than, they all mean nothing. There is simply is and is not. It is black and white. If you have an issue with it, I guess you can petition the Irish government and get them to change their citizenship laws. I doubt you'll have much luck.

I think this is a bit of a cop-out, as Mystic Penguin has said. The problem isn't the abuse (although I think it's ridiculous, just as American criticism of Giuseppe Rossi is ridiculous). The problem is the form that the abuse takes. While I'm sure that the Scottish people would get very creative in expanding the vocabulary to describe somebody who "turned his back" on Scotland in favor of Switzerland, I doubt that the Irish racial epithets would feature in it. That's the issue. And as MP also mentioned, it didn't just happen with McGeady.

I also never saw the statement that everybody who booed him was a bigot. I've seen people stating that bigots abused him racially, and that the abuse was scandalous, but not that every person who simply booed was a bigot. There's a huge difference there.

 

@diegan, maybe I read your statement incorrectly but FIFA does have a grandparent rule?

 

They don't. The Home Nations have a grandparent rule to determine inter-home nations eligibility due to the complicated fact that Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales, and England are technically the same state, which is the (admittedly fair) reason why a lot of people on the forum get confused when it comes to international eligibility. FIFA defers to nationality law. In the US' case, Charlie Mulgrew did not have citizenship and was not eligible for citizenship even though his grandma was American. It's not how we do things.

 

I think you're wrong, Mulgrew could have played for the u.s if they had called him up. If I'm wrong then the media here didn't do much research on that one.

 

Nope. It was roundly dismissed by the US media and on BigSoccer. Somehow it never got back to the UK. There is a "grandmother"-ish rule on FIFA's books, maybe that's causing some confusion. If you read the rule book (I'll post it below) you'll find the answers starting on page 66. In section 5, it clearly states that citizenship is the factor which defines eligibility. That's the first gate. Therefore, since Charlie is not a US citizenship, his road ends there.

Now, let's take a guy like Mikkel Diskerud, who was born and raised in Oslo, yet qualifies for the US. He has citizenship for the US and Norway, so then we go to section six, which clarifies that you need some sort of "tie" to the country you pick. The "ties" to a country (remembering that these "ties" only become factors after citizenship is confirmed. Mix is a citizen because his mother presumably registered him at the US embassy) include being born in the nation (he wasn't born in the US, so that's not sufficient), having your biological mother/father born in the country (his mother was born and raised in the US, so that, combined with his citizenship, is how he qualifies), mother/grandfather born in the country (this is where the confusion comes from, but as you can see it's only tied to somebody who already has citizenship), or living in the nation for a period of two uninterrupted years (he doesn't have that either).

So it's a case of this: everything starts with citizenship, then you move to the grandmother rule. So my situation is actually pertinent to this, as I almost qualify for Ireland. My grandmother's mother was Irish (only through her mother's mother), meaning that she was eligible for Irish citizenship. Unfortunately, she never claimed it (leaving my life a bit more difficult. but that's beside the point). However, if she had, then, since my grandmother would technically be an Irish citizen despite never having been there, I as well would be able to claim Irish citizenship. However, since none of the other qualifiers would work for me, I could not play for Ireland. Now, it is an exceptionally rare case where somebody is a citizen of a country yet was not born there, has no parents or grandparents who were born there, and has not lived in that country for a minimum of two years. FIFA, rightly in this case, would say "wait, this is getting ridiculous". But I've never seen that be a factor since, as I said, almost no country would allow somebody to have citizenship without any of those qualifiers being true.

So, long story short, there is a granny rule of sorts, but it only becomes a factor if the player in question is already a citizen of the country. Chuck was not, so his investigation would have ended there.

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/generic/01/66/54/21/fifastatutes2012e.pdf

 

And to put this back on track, Diego Costa qualifies since he has Spanish citizenship (step one) and has lived there for more than five years continuously (which satisfies one of the "ties" requirements. It's two years for someone born with citizenship, five years for someone who acquires it later in life).

 

Here's where people need to be careful. There's a difference between giving someone stick for not choosing Scotland and singing "why don't you go home", which is overtly offensive and implies anyone who isn't about 10th generation Scottish/British/whatever should leave the country. Hibs fans never sung that at McGeady and I think comparing what Hibs fans did with McGeady to people singing that song at him or McCarthy is offensive tbh.

Yeah, I've said that myself. Maybe he's just a gloryhunter, albeit a gloryhunter who's done it badly as his team is now *.

I don't think there's much more we can say about McGeady without going round in circles. It's qualitative in the sense that he had to choose what he felt his nationality is, but when somebody is born in Scotland to two Scottish parents and three Scottish grandparents you have to expect that people will say he's "more" Scottish. You can say they shouldn't but it's very hard not to think of him as Scottish, hence the criticism.

You're perhaps right that for some people there wouldn't be the same underlying racial element if it was a guy choosing Switzerland to Scotland, but there's two sides to it. There also wouldn't be people calling the criticism of him "scandalous" because they see anti-Swiss bigotry when it isn't there. To bring it closer to home, if a promising Scottish player chose Wales because of his grandad I'd expect equal criticism from Scottish football fans and way less controversy surrounding it. Until xenophobic songs like the Famine song come into it (which most clubs didn't sing) McGeady getting stick is a total non story and far from scandalous.

 

I seem to remember at the time being surprised by the amount of "moderate" clubs (read: non-Rangers, Hearts) who engaged in stuff like the Famine song and the use of phrases like * * and taig. It's just a sore subject. Although I do agree that it has hardened hearts to the extent that there are emotional reactions even toward people who don't make it about Ireland. And in a perfect world that wouldn't happen, and I myself try to avoid that kind of reaction. But I expect more sympathy to be shown to the side who reacts emotionally because of abuse than the side who just wants them to stop moaning about it. Surely an understanding has to be there that the reaction exists for a reason.

 

I still can't get over this whole "turning your back on your country nonsense".... patriotism is so stupid at times.

McGeady has definitely talked about interviews, in his younger days, how he's always felt Irish and that he was really proud of his Irish roots. There's even footage of him as a kid kicking about in an Irish jersey.

if people want to see it as "turning his back on his country", then so be it, they can * and moan and whinge about it, it's not something that McGeady will care too much about when he's playing for his country, Ireland.

 

McGeady has said he considers himself Irish many times.

 

Aye, Falkirk, Motherwell and Aberdeen being particularly bad at it.

Obviously Hearts and Rangers. Even heard it at Hamilton... When McCarthy was playing for them.

 

http://www.estadao.com.br/noticias/esportes,diego-costa-esta-certo-diz-pele,1093130,0.htm

 

Felipao is so funny. He convinced Deco and Pepe to chose Portugal instead of Brazil and now criticizes Costa for doing the same.

 

But Brazil didn't want Deco or Pepe (rightly or wrongly) so it didn't matter what Felipão really said, they wanted to play international football. Deco, a good footballer couldn't compete with Ronaldinho, Rivaldo or Juninho. Diego Costa is different because he is turning down Brazil for Spain, instead of going to Spain to try and get some international football.

Still the Brazilian FA response has been horrible, with the threats to take away his Brazilian citizenship. He hasn't really been giving a fair go at the national team, and he comes from a very poor region of Brazil, Sergipe, so Brazilian society hasn't really invested in him or his generation. He has settled well in Spain and been accepted well there, so I can see why he wants to swap. Meh, good luck to him, just wouldn't want to be him during the World Cup.

 

Costa has double nationality and lives in Spain since he was almost a boy. Brazil never counted on him and this is a personal decision that only he can take. Personally I think he'll be the 9 of Spain during many years.

 

Edited my post RB1907

But he hasn't been in Spain since he was a child. He moved to Portugal in 2006, aged 18 after playing in São Paulo state.

 

It depends, I know people with grey hair who are still children. :smiley-laughing002:

But you're right mate, he was signed by Atlético de Madrid in 2007.

 

I know a few that are going bald. :smiley-laughing002:

Anyway, just seen this picture, awkward. :smiley-laughing002:

 

A present for Felipao.