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Can Celtic Emulate Dortmund?

Discussion in 'Celtic Chat' started by ThisIsGhod, May 16, 2013.

Discuss Can Celtic Emulate Dortmund? in the Celtic Chat area at TalkCeltic.net.

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Just Kieran Gold Member Gold Member

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Victor Wanyama seems to think so http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footb...a-celtic-can-copy-borussia-dortmund-1-2929984

For us to do anything like Dortmund, the landscape of Scottish football would have to change radically, and be geared heavily towards the development of young players.

We would have to continue to unearth good quality players from 'untapped sources'. The likes of Izaguirre, Kayal, Wanyama etc being the prime example in recent years.

We'd also have to place great emphasis on producing our own Champions League standard footballers.

Just Kieran, May 16, 2013

#21
Zander Gold Member Gold Member

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Hammer said: ↑

We should have beat them comfortably at home in the first game. We were just finding our feet as a team at that level.
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Hmm, true, but I don't think we are actualy a better team than benfica, despite the CL standings. I think they are quite a bit ahead of us. Their technical ability is far beyond ours.

Zander, May 16, 2013

#22
Twisty . Gold Member

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Hammer said: ↑

Who argued otherwise?
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Who said anyone did ?

The only way I can see us doing anything is a total revamp of our coaching system from top to bottom. Bring in foreign coaches, scour the continent for the best young players and coach them better. Scottish, well British players aren't technically good enough.

Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2013

Twisty, May 16, 2013

#23
Mr. Fawlty

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ILoveTheCeltic said: ↑

Their Merchandise sales were £12.7million, ours were £13.3million and their ticket sales were £26.5million, ours were £28.9million.
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Interesting, I didn't think there would be such a disparity between Bundesliga and SPL ticket prices.

Are the figures from domestic matches plus Europe, or just one or the other?

Mr. Fawlty, May 16, 2013

#24
King of Kings

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I don't understand where this comparison with Dortmund comes from. They're a massive club with huge revenue streams that we could only dream of. They play in one of the best leagues in the world ina country that considtently churns out world class players and have one of the best teams in the world.

The only criteria we're on par with them on is support (maybe we exceed them here globally?) but there is a huge gulf between ourselves and Dortmund financially and in terms of current stature.

King of Kings, May 16, 2013

#25
ILoveTheCeltic

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Mr. Fawlty said: ↑

Interesting, I didn't think there would be such a disparity between Bundesliga and SPL ticket prices.

Are the figures from domestic matches plus Europe, or just one or the other?
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All matchday income, tickets, food and stuff in the year.

Its from last season too when they were in the CL and we were in the Europa League.

ILoveTheCeltic, May 16, 2013

#26
King of Kings

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Fully said: ↑

Benfica are a far better team than us.
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I would have to disagree. They're not far better IMO. Definitely better but not that much in it.

King of Kings, May 16, 2013

#27
ThisIsGhod

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Jurgen Klopp took a Dortmund team that was kind of underachieving and has made them into a European Superpower if you like. Lennon took a Celtic team that was really underachieving and has gradually got Celtic back into the map. Now I'm not comparing Klopp to lennon, obviously I would say Klopp is a better manager but they both had similar situations. They are both currently building good teams through youth. Klopps case is easier because German youth players are generally excellent whereas Lennon is getting youth players from abroad but still the current team is improving.

ThisIsGhod, May 16, 2013

#28
Mr. Fawlty

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ILoveTheCeltic said: ↑

All matchday income, tickets, food and stuff in the year.

Its from last season too when they were in the CL and we were in the Europa League.
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I see.

That says an awful lot about the fantastic value of the Bundesliga, then, given that they get 20,000 more than Celtic but generate around about the same revenue from the fans.

It also says a lot about the gap faced by Celtic, clubs in Germany can afford to look after the fans with subsidies but Lawell and co really have to maximise ticket and match day revenue streams to keep up.

Mr. Fawlty, May 16, 2013

#29
Scotzbhoy

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If we ever want to become a real force in Europe then I think we need to change our system somewhat. Teams like that don't just grow over a few years, money isn't everything. Look at Barca, they aren't as good as they are just because they have such quality players, they're able to play that style of football because most of them have been playing that way together since they were 13. As far as I know Germany generally has a similar coaching/youth set up. It's possible for us to reach that sort of standard if we invest plenty of time, energy and resources into our youth and scouting set ups, but it would probably come at a price in the short term, and I'm not sure our fans have the patience for that.

Scotzbhoy, May 16, 2013

#30
Millerntor

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King of Kings said: ↑

I don't understand where this comparison with Dortmund comes from. They're a massive club with huge revenue streams that we could only dream of. They play in one of the best leagues in the world ina country that considtently churns out world class players and have one of the best teams in the world.
.
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 Because of something one of our players said that was probably sensationalised and spun by the media to attract to fans who cream themselves when hearing things like that.


Millerntor, May 16, 2013

#31
McManus4

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Dortmund seen a position they needed to strengthen in the summer and went out and got EXACTLY who they wanted in Reus. He cost an absolute fortune and they took a massive risk at £20m or so but it's paid off. We can't take massive financial risks like that.
McManus4, May 16, 2013

#32

Liam Scales

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No, we don't have the league to attract that kinda quality.

Liam Scales, May 16, 2013

#33
ILoveTheCeltic

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Mr. Fawlty said: ↑

I see.

That says an awful lot about the fantastic value of the Bundesliga, then, given that they get 20,000 more than Celtic but generate around about the same revenue from the fans.

It also says a lot about the gap faced by Celtic, clubs in Germany can afford to look after the fans with subsidies but Lawell and co really have to maximise ticket and match day revenue streams to keep up.
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Aye, Dortmund got £99.5million from TV and Sponsorships compared to us who got £9million from that last year. So they got 11 x what we did.

ILoveTheCeltic, May 16, 2013

#34
Jungo

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No chance

Jungo, May 16, 2013

#35
Belfast Lad

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i personally belive i will never see celtic lift the champions league while we play our football in scotland, give us a year or two in the epl and maybe...

Belfast Lad, May 16, 2013

#36
Biggie Smalls

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Well technically if we're in the CL we have a chance of winning it. Don't see it happening but it's possible we could get really lucky.

Biggie Smalls, May 16, 2013

#37
Millerntor

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Biggie Smalls said: ↑

Well technically if we're in the CL we have a chance of winning it. Don't see it happening but it's possible we could get really lucky.
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 True, in the same way that as a heterosexual male on planet earth I could get it together with Rihanna. Don't see it happening but it's possible I could get really lucky.


Millerntor, May 16, 2013

#38
murphy88

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The harsh reality is, plain and simple, no! We can talk about youth systems etc, the fact is, if we bring through any youngster that is going to be good enough one day to even come close to lifting the Champions League trophy, he will more than likely be snapped up by a team from down South. And unfortunately, in this day and age, it's very unusual for players not to get their head turned by money. The little rat (Feruz), is a prime example of this. He was touted as being the next superstar, then the next thing we know, he was off to Chelsea, and we received the square root of hee haw for him. Liam Miller is another example, although a little bit older when he left.

murphy88, May 16, 2013

#39
mayo

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We're not producing enough 'CL quality' players. We've only produced 2 in the last 10 years (McGeady and Forrest) which just isn't good enough for a team like celtic. Fair enough we were unlucky with Kennedy and Miller but I'm sure every club has the same unfortunate stories. Hopefully the Lennoxtown project will be successful in the next years as I believe to ever reach the great heights again we need to be producing 'CL quality' every 2/3 years

mayo, May 16, 2013

#40

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