Worst Points Total Since 1999/2000

We won 3 CL matches. I really don't think that it's a necessity to drop 35 points in the SPL in order to win those 3 matches. People talk about our European run like we've achieved what Dortmund have.

I don't include the qualifiers because considering the teams we faced the group stages was the bare minimum as far as expectations go.

I agree with this.

Wish people would stop saying "young manager" like it means something though. It's basically an implication that he will improve because he's "young" compared to other managers. Age isn't the decisive factor in a manager's ability.

AVB's 6 years younger. Guardiola's a year older. Conte's 2 years older. Klopp's only 4 years older. Knowledge of the game, views on the game and tactical ability are far greater factors than age.

Both Mourinho and Villas-Boas had won UEFA Cup's when they were younger than Lennon is now.

 

Was listening to that 606 phone-in on 5 live last night. An alleged Man Utd fan phoned in to complain about Alex Ferguson, he claimed that the team was poorer than Man City and Ferguson was lucky to win the title this season.

Amazing the differing viewpoints amongst fans.

 

We won the League ( and hopefully the cup).

We broke two club records in the Champions League.

1 First time we have ever got 10 points.
2 First time we have ever won an away game in the group stages.

Guarantee me the same again next year and I will bite your hand off.

 

As brucie would say points make prizes !......who got the most points us who won the trophy us .you don't get anything for getting the most points in spl history couldn't give a toss if its by 1 point or 30 points so long as we win.

 

I agree 100%

You only have to look at the EPL at the weekend. Games like Man Utd v Chelsea, Everton v Liverpool, and even Swansea v Man City, are usually full of excitment. This weekend the games were chronic and there was one goal between the three of them (from the one team that still has something to play for). When there is no perceived competition or real significance of any game then people are not going to be bursting a gut to win in the same way they otherwise would.

It is an inevitable outcome of having a league with so little competition and therefore so little importance attached to each game.

But you speak as if we had a * given right to those 35 points. We dont. We are the best team in the league no doubt and that is why we won the league without ever looking like we werent. But no team has a right to just assume that they should only drop points if it is deemed "necessary" to do so.

In our 125 year history, this has been one of our most successful. I really do not understand what point of comparison people are using when they are complaining this season?

 

Of course it isn't a necessity but for as long as we were in Europe that is where our concentration and focus was and rightly so as we knew we were going to win the League no matter what.

I certainly include the qualifiers, you might have expected to get to the group stages, but our recent record didn't suggest to me that we were going to get there. I am a bit more grounded in my expectations and took nothing for granted when it came to Europe.

You say dropping 35 points and that kind of exaggerates it a bit as we were always going to drop points as we do every season. If we're taking an average season's points tally then we've probably dropped between 13-18 points that we shouldn't have. We've also dropped five of those points after the League was won so you can count those if you want, but teams do tend to drop points after they've got the League wrapped up.

How do you measure achievements though, Dortmund have a fantastic playing squad with a terrific manager and should be getting to the latter stages of the CL. What's made Dortmund's achievement so great is because they haven't done much in Europe for a while, but I don't think too many people are surprised at how well Dortmund have done this season in the CL. You would just have to watch how well they've done recently in winning back-to-back Bundesliga's. In fact, Dortmund's another example of a team sacrificing their League campaign to concentrate on Europe, it got to a point where Dortmund realised that Bayern were running away with the League so they put much of their focus into their European campaign.

I am not saying us getting to the Last 16 is as good as Dortmund getting to the final, but please don't downplay our progress in Europe this season.

Of course it doesn't automatically mean he'll improve but people do get better at things with more experience, that's why I think it's fair to mention that he's a young manager.

This might be his peak as a manager of course, he might never improve but I don't think we should just assume that he can't or will not improve. For all we know he might go on and be a very successful manager after he leaves here or he could leave here and never make it elsewhere as a manager but it's definitely worth pointing out that he's a young manager imo.

 

We need to do better in the league next season, dropping the amount of points we have isn't great but people should ease up a bit on the moaning. The goal at the start of the season was to win the league and win a cup (which we're in the process of doing), the European campaign was an unexpected and incredible bonus... so we've done no bad!

 

If we win the league and qualify for the CL every year I;m always going to be happy.

 

Put the shoe on the other foot - would you have been happier if we had crashed out of Europe just to salvage those 35 points in a league we were pretty much guaranteed to win anyway?

I wouldn't.

Who cares if we dropped 35 points? We still won the league. It would be a bigger problem if we were dropping more points and struggling to stay top, but we weren't.

Regarding the Champions League run - I think people are beefing it up because it was an amazing effort getting to the last 16 with the team we had and with a rookie manager, and I think it deserves to be beefed up. Young team (average age 23/24 maybe?), the majority of them never playing at that level before, getting out a tough group by winning 10 points and being 2nd.

We get to the last 16 of the Champions League, win the SPL Title again, get to the Scottish Cup Final again and some people are griping about our points total? :smiley-laughing002:

 

Why do we need to salvage one or the other, though. That's the whole point of it. We were constantly hearing how we have "two sides". One for Europe & one for the SPL. If the players are too knackered after a European game then change things up and play the other side. Playing a midweek game means losing at home to Inverness and Killie at the weekend? Absolute bollocks. In 01-02 we played 8 European games from the start of the season to Halloween (a further two after and before Christmas) and won every game bar 1 draw. Finished that season losing only 1 game. How the * did we manage with such a gruesome schedule?! Sarcasm obviously but still a general question.

It's incredible how Europe's elite teams manage to juggle European football with domestic football. Playing in league's with much more quality throughout and with more pressure added to their domestic games than what we'll experience for the next few years. Really amazing, that.

He isn't a "rookie manager" either, by the way.

I'm not moaning only about the points total. The football's been utter *. There's a logical explanation for that, of course. Having played a home CL game midweek by the time the weekend came around the players were really tired still. It's obviously more tiring playing attacking, fast paced football so we decided to just lump it to our left midfield target man to save energy for the next CL game 3 weeks later. Can't really blame them much to be fair.

Who cares if we drop 35 points? I care. Every Celtic fan who pumps their money into the club care. Every Celtic fan who's getting up at 6 in the morning to travel to the Highlands to watch the players strut around, getting outplayed by Ross County and treating the whole thing like a training exercise. That's who cares. Aye, we won the league, I'm delighted about that but the people who're saying * like "I wouldn't care if we won the league by 1 point as long as win it" are talking out of their *.

People do get better with more experience, yes. But it doesn't necessarily apply to a football manager. Experience will improve man management. It doesn't help you if you're simply a tactical bombscare and so far he's done little to dispel that claim. He's been involved in professional football at the highest level for over 20 years now. If you're not completely clued up tactically by then then it doesn't look very good, surely?

If we lose to Hibs will you still be saying this will be one of our most successful seasons ever?

I don't think we have a * given right to be beating teams. I do however think that dropping 35 points and failing to win FOURTEEN matches in a league without Rangers is taking the *.

After we beat St Mirren in 2010 with a last minute scramble he called Maloney & Ki "world class". He then goes and sells both. He's since called Hooper, Forster, Wanyama, Kayal & Samaras "world class". * me, if he'd kept Ki and Maloney we'd have been challenging for the Champions League, what with our 7 world class players in the team! He called Forrest one of the best players he's seen at that age. Gotze, Neymar, Isco, Alaba, Muniain, Eriksen, Wilshere, Lucas Moura, Coutinho, Phil Jones, Oxlade-Chamberlain & Lukaku are all younger than James Forrest and are all superior footballers. Personally I think he's clueless. I respect that others rate him and are entitled to their opinions, that's fine, that's what forums are all about. It isn't like I want him to be any less successful than any of you. I just have less optimism about it.

 

The points tally is not important? Away ye go!

The players are paid a handsome salary loaded with bonuses to go out and win matches. We tower above every other team in the league and we finish on this points total this year? It is an embarrassment, quite frankly.

You want to blame the players, but in fairness it has been the team selections, tactics and lack of motivation that the manager is responsible for.

 

The points tally is only important up until the league is won. Being champions of Scotlabd is hardly embarrassing.

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Considering it was won before it kicked off, for me that is irrelevant. It was about giving the fans their monies worth. Which, to be far domestically has not really been the case.

 

I never said we have to salvage one for the other and it would be great to be consistently good in both SPL & Europe. Also, I never said that playing a midweek game means losing at the weekend, but I believe there are plenty of teams that go through "European hangovers". I very much doubt the players and management actually think "Ach, * it - we done good in Europe this week so the league match means * all" (although to be honest it does appear that some of the players had that kind of attitude with some of the matches).

In the 01/02 season we weren't in Europe after Christmas because that season we got put out by Valencia on penalties and for those 8 European games you're talking about we W - 4; D - 0; L - 4, so I don't know what season you're on about where we only drew one of the games. This season we only played 1 game less up to 31st Oct in Europe than the 01/02 season, but we played 2 more games overall for the European campaign - 10 in season 01/02, 12 this season.

Change things up? Lennon does change things up but then gets moaned at for making those changes if we draw/lose our SPL games after/before a European game. If/when he changes things, he gets moaned at. If he doesn't rest players he still gets moaned at. He can't win.

And to be honest we had a better team and squad back in 01/02 than what we have now, so maybe that's why we performed much better in the league than what we have this season. Who knows, but a league title is a league title regardless of how many points we end up winning by.

Yes he is by the way. You're not just a rookie for one or two season's. First managing job and he's only been at it for 3 seasons now, so he's still really only a rookie on the experience side.

You say you're not moaning about the points total and it's understandable why the football has been dire at times in the League yet you still complain about the 35 points dropped. Sounds like moaning about the points total to me. What's more important - winning the league or amassing a huge amount of points to win the league by?

From ALL these Celtic fans you speak on behalf of you must have excluded the ones at the Ross County match because it sounded like THEY were pretty happy even though we only drew 1-1. Yeh, the football in the League this year has been inconsistent and dire at times, but you can't play "beautiful football" all the time, but like I say as long as we win the league I couldn't give a * what points total we end up with. Even if it IS only one point more than the 2nd placed team :bbpd:

Never realised that becoming Scottish Champions was such an embarrassment

The manager can only do so much when the players are on the park so it's down to players as well. And in all fairness, these are the same players that won against teams like Barcelona and Spartak so where were they when we were dropping these points against SPL teams?

 

Take Europe out of it, every match is a cup final in Europe for us.

Domestically, we have been shocking. The buck stops with Lennon, its his job to motivate the players.

Lennon, out.

 

Yep we've been shocking alright. Another SPL title and possibly another Scottish Cup win as well coming up.

Why should every game be treated like a European Cup Final if it was a given that we were going to be Champions before a ball was kicked at the start of the season? Funny that when we win it's the players that did a really good job in getting the result, but when we lose it's Lennon's fault

Lennon never got any grief for his motivational skills towards the players last season to come from 15 points behind Hun FC to win the League but this season - with practically the same group of players - he's suddenly lacking in them?!

Aye ok.

 

Say what you want.

His time here is done. Lennon, out.

 

We've had some amount of European hangovers, eh? How will we cope when the huns are back and there's eventually a title challenge on once again?

I didn't say we were. I said we played 2 after Halloween and before Christmas.

I'm not advocating he change things up. I'm suggesting that if the reason we've been poor this season is because of European involvement then surely it'd be wise to utilise the biggest and best squad in the country? Personally I think we've been poor this season because we are poor.

He gets moaned at because he moans like * about inconsistency when he plays a different 11 every week. His idea of changes is bringing Mulgrew or Ambrose into midfield for a game.

You're right. He can't win...

Did the "by the way" get to you or something? Certainly struck a nerve for whatever reason. And no, he isn't a rookie, by the way. You're not a rookie when you're a month or two away from being in your fourth * season.

I was being sarcastic with the "logical explanation" line. I thought that much was obvious. It isn't understandable why the football is dire. It's an absolute chore going to watch Celtic these days.

It's not the loss to the eventual points tally that upsets me. It's the fact that Celtic dropped points. I'm not mad that in the sense that "*, we've dropped x amount of points now we can't reach x amount of points". I'm mad in the sense that "*, we've just failed to win another game to SPL pish".

When the Huns are in the league it doesn't matter how you win it. You're ecstatic regardless. When the huns are in the third division though things change. Next season, will you be 100% happy and in no way disgruntled even the slightest bit if we beat Motherwell to the league on the last day of the season with a last minute goal to win the title on goal difference? You're seriously implying that?

We'll sing wherever we go. Doesn't mean the fans are or were happy. Stupid comment.

We'll see how satisfied the "a win's a win" brigade are if * forbid next season we win the league by a single point. It'd be a * disgrace.

 

Give the players a bonus if we get 90+ points next season, and include win bonuses for the SPL.

 

Becoming more and more convinced that you're just trolling us now.

I don't expect every Celtic fan to support Lennon as manager, but this particular post just reeks of someone looking for a reaction. You make it sound as though Lennon has been an utter failure of a manager at Celtic, when we all know that hasn't been the case.