Ki Sung-Yueng

2 ball winning midfielders in a 4-4-2 formation is suicidal for us. Unless its like 4-2-2-2 where forrest and samaras/commons push up. Personally i can't see too much creativity or precision from Vic and Kayal combo. I would much rather Ledley/Kayal, which would provide minimum passing and goal threat from the midfield.

As for the highlighted statement, i would only say

As for the rest, its your idea and logic which i find intriguing but don't agree with 100%

 

Going through a bit of a purple patch atm. Don't know if it's down to fatigue, a knock, confidence or whatever but he doesn't look 100%.

Poor performance last night but not as bad as made out.

 

Why do you asume he is lazy? Because he aint running around in a Brownesque manner, or has an aggressive face jumping into tackles and getting in players faces?

Ki's attacking movements on and off the ball at his age could be considered excellent, I find it extremely difficult to explain to someone who obviously thinks he is lazy, what it is he actually does because clearly your are not getting it.

His intelligence to turn one way or another seems to open himself out mountains of space and because he does it so easily people seem to assume it does not take hard work? His positioning off the ball to constantly turn, move and pass at a very accurate rate is second to none in Scotland at the moment.

He ain't been putting in MOM performances at the moment but honestly, if you take Forrests cracking performances vs average/pish performances ratio, is probably equals out that with Ki. And he does not need to zip across to Korea almost on a bi monthly basis.

Like I said, if you do not appreciate the type of footballer he is, then maybe you just value a certain type of the game over what I value. Thats ok your opinion is yours. But is he far from a 4th string mid. That is a crazy comment.

 

quite often he gets himself out of position and instead of getting back quickly he strolls back, in general he never closes down the man with the ball. I don't believe that every midfielder must be flying into tackles but he doesn't close down space effectively, a must for a two man central midfield.

I disagree, Forrest is far more consistent than Ki and imo has been our best player this year, he singlehandedly carried us through a rough patch and I wouldn't want to think how many points we would have dropped without him. He is also close to three years younger than Ki so deserves more slack for an occasional off performance.

imo if everyone is fit he is fourth string
1. Kayal
2. Ledley
3. Wanyama
4. Ki
I might even move him down to fifth to accomodate Brown who I believe is a better player and really shouldn't take Forrest's spot because of his great form this year.

 

So like hartley and robson then? Oh wait that would be the midfield combo that led us to our last title. 2 ball winning mids is exactly what we need to be playing. in order to boss the midfield. Kayal and big vic have been a dynamite partnership so far and i dont see why they wont continue to be. We lose far more often with ki playing in a 2 man midfield than with a kayal vic or a kayal ledley partnershiip. I dont think its a coincidence. Two ball winning mids are incredibly vital this year because of our shaky defense. As for my highlighted statement ki's passing was * toiight. Im not sure if your laughing because you thought i meant in general his passing is *, which i did not. Or if you are laughing because you thought it was good tonight, which it was not. Im not disputing that ki is a talented player because he is but he just isnt cut out for a two man midfield role.

 

I just got to watch the second half. Kayal's duck was comical I thought. But he might have gone down to head it instead of blocking the shot with his body? and just missed it - which is also bazaar, so either way looks bad for him.

Ki played poorly overall I think. He's maybe not match fit, or in form. He looked nervy at times. He should have done better especially during the final few minutes. Poor FK that last chance. Some shiny moments and I hope those are what KD takes home.

He was not good. Not as bad as some may say mind you, but overrall quite disappointing. Would do a couple of nice things, then go invisible for ten minutes and follow that up with a few miss passes/ bad control and then back to a couple of nice things and repeat.

Seems to be still suffering a bit from his sickness. Not sure. But he needs to up his work rate off the ball. More hard running to open and close down passing lanes. Too much languid jogging.

 

Wanyama and Biram gets on each other's way far too much for Celtic's liking. At times like this, I'm glad Ki is playing as a winger and he isn't asked to deal with the crap those two produce. Bring back Brown.

 

Robson and Hartley were no where near comparable to Kayal and Ledley. Hartley sure did get stuck in like Kayal but Robson was certainly the typical box to box midfielder like Ledley. Hence i think Robson/Hartley is more comparable to Ledley/Kayal. I was laughing because his passing was far far from *, but i have no beef if you thought it was *.

As for the highlighted statement, i partly agree with that to an extent but against weaker opponents it will definitely work. But i also think Vic/Kayal combo is just as flawed and weak. Furthermore Ki is a unique player at Celtic at the moment, the only creative midfielder in fact. I for one certainly think we need to value that greatly. Because, technical ability is just as important as "getting stuck in".

 

no one can underestimate how happy this makes me feel. everyone can carry on with the debate over Ki. but what quality in depth we have in the middle of the park. makes me drool...and not from my mouth. throw in the wingers of Commons, Forrest, Brown and McCourt and we have an outstanding options in midfield.

if we keep this midfield together we will achieve great things. this midfield has the potential at stay together for 5/6yrs at the club. unbelievable.

 

Ki didnt play like a creative midfielder last night or in any of his recent games. He floats around in the middle with no pace and when he gets the ball often takes the easy option and passes square. He is capable of playing brilliant passes but often passes the buck.

Being a creative midfielder is not an excuse for being lazy just look at Atletico they all worked hard of the ball to close down and were busy. We know his natural game is not tackling but in modern day football their is no room for being lazy especially in a 4-4-2 with samaras and forrest as your wide players, even a 4-4-3 like this.

I also don't think he suits playing the pushed forward role as for South Korea he is often the sitting midfielder. He looks lost when asked to play as an attacking midfielder. I think he could be a good player possibly in Italy but if he went to Spain or pos EPL he wont do much with his current workrate.

I

 

Good points (bar the highlighted point ), but he still is the most creative midfielder in the team.

I don't know mate, he might not suit the spl but i certainly think there is a place for him at celtic where he plays regularly. I guess it depends on what formation and what players we play and acquire in the future.

 

Your point about Ki not closing people down is spot on. He always wants a free game and just wanders about when we're on the back foot, we'd be as well playing with a man down a lot of the time when he's like that.

 

He needs to learn a lot positionally, he plays like he always has men to cover him.

 

Mystified by that comment. Whether it's in Spain, England or Italy you have to work incredibly hard in midfield. Pirlo doesn't have to work, because he has two industrial players beside him in Vidal and Marchisio to do all the running while he sprays the ball about. He is a special case, because of his talent, but he's an anachronistic midfielder in this day and age. The midfield is built around him to suit his game.

Ki is not Pirlo. He does not have his superhuman technical ability or incisive long pass accuracy that allows him to stretch teams all over the place. He's also not as intelligent as Pirlo. I don't mean to denigrate Ki, but you wouldn't make the same concessions for him as you would the likes of Pirlo because he doesn't have what he has in his locker.

Pirlo could never play in a two man midfield, because he doesn't have the lungs, legs or tackling ability. Never has. Ki is the same. I do like him, but he was poor last night, apart from that free-kick and some deliveries. It's no coincidence our best results have coincided with him being out of the team.

 

I think we need to sell a midfielder to strenghten elsewhere I think Ki should be that man I think we will get decent money for him but 5-6mill for a player at his stage of his career will be good imo but he will develop his craft, his positioning will get better but sadly not in Scotland this league will end up stifling him

 

A luxury player, luxury we can't afford. We need to grind out results and that means being tough in midfield, honestly think we should sell him if we get a decent offer. Our team just now isn't good enough for someone to not be pulling their weight.

 

Is a purple patch not a good patch?

 

I'm wondering if people are thinking he had a shocking game positionally because they think he was playing CM.

He was playing behind the striker for 3 quarters of the match yesterday...

 

I just thought he didn't look too sharp. His touch wasn't as good as it usually is. At one point he basically fell over the ball trying to be fancy. Like I said on previous pages, we don't play the football nor have the players for a player like him to fit in. It really isn't his fault.

 

I was thinking that as well.

Players in that position often have a 'free role' or more freedom at the very least, I normally don't have a problem with Ki's work-rate and I reckon it was due to the position he was played in.

His best position is sitting just in front of the defence, picking up the ball from them and making things happen. Arriving late into the final third and getting a shot away if possible.

The criticism is way over the top. Ki can defend, in fact since he's got here it's clear he's worked extremely hard on that side of his game. Ki's not just a luxury player and his positioning isn't a problem either. His work-rate usually can't be questioned either but that's just my opinion.

Is this the same Ki that ran the show when we were down to 10 men against the huns?

It wasn't one of his best games but there's some people implying he's not good enough to be starting at Celtic at all really, which is very wide of the mark and thankfully the only people that matter can see that, Neil Lennon and the back-room staff at Celtic. Ki's a superb talent, in my opinion.