Experience over affection...

Hi Bhoys and Ghirls,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
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I've just finished reading Chick Hun's blog (don't know why I bother) on BBC website, which this week sees him jump on the current media bandwagon and advocate the full-time appointment of Lennon. It's an opinion though that is echoed on here repeatedly and thought it might be worth a post doused in detachment.<o></o>
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When TM left, after that fiasco in Paisley, we were left at our lowest ebb in a long time: an imbalanced squad, over-run with loan players; players' confidence and spirit almost non-existent and humiliated by a glance at the league table. The night after that game and the obvious sacking of TM that followed, most fans on here were singing from the same hymn sheet: an expereinced manager that knows the game, has presence and discipline and get the best out of some underachieving players. No more fancy football, let's firm things up for a couple of years, re-assert dominance in Scotland and then re-assess. Names like Levein, McCarthy, Hughes: proven mangers, good CVs and the right sort of individual.<o></o>
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A fortnight later, everywhere I turn it is 'Lenny's job to lose'. The only footbal played in the meantime has been a 3-1 home victory against a pish Kilmarnock side that played with four centre-forwards. I am really struggling to see the reasoning behind Lenny's ful time appointment.<o></o>
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Don't get me wrong, I love Lennon as a figure and a character, and is someone I fully believe should be around the club. He's a winner, he knows what it means and I believe he knows the game well and will make a great manager one day. But why has our outlook of experience over experiments changed in a week. Lennon picked up a club on the floor: things could only get better. There is no pressure now in the league games really, at least not pressure comparable to what it would be like if we were level with the huns at this stage. Yet if he 'puts together a decent run of results, there's no reason he should not be seriously considered' apparently. He has a two game mission to win a gift wrapped (no disrespect or hubris, but it should be won and won comfrtably when it's what your season hinges on) Scottish cup, which apparetly will prove his credentials.<o></o>
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Detach yourselves from Lennon the man and consider Lennon the manager. A completely unproven assistant/ reserve team coach. That's it. Imagine (please abandon partisan reactions) we appointed McCoist as our manager next season: an assistant with no experience. Or the West Ham reserve coach, or the Everton assistant manager. There'd be outrage! So why is Lenny different?<o></o>
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If the answer includes the words 'Celtic man, Celtic minded, knows what it means, etc' please have a look at our recent past and the trophy outputs of the following groups. Three past players: Macari, Tommy, Mogga ; Three who never played in the hoops: Jansen, O'Neil, Strachan. Mogga must have taught us the lesson about pursuing only within a Celtic bubble, which for me can be the only reason for elevating Lennon to a position his manageral CV clearly doesn't merit.<o></o>
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What we need now is two years of stability and domestic achievement. Let's bully a huns side that is picked off by Lloyd's vultures and whores its 'stars' to the Premiership for pennies, and re-assert genuine and obvious domestic dominance. I actually think, with our financial state and the players available, with a good, experienced manager that shouldn't be too hard. But experiment with inexperience again and you're dancing with gift wrapping the huns 3IAR.<o></o>
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For me, it's experience over partisanship for the dug-out next year, or we are taking an unnecessary risk. Let Lenny stay involved, his time may come, but that time isn't now.<o></o>
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Thoughts?<o></o>

 

I couldnt agree more, Lennon doesnt have the managerial experince and far too many want him in place simply because he hates the Huns with a passion. Unfortunately this is enough for a large section of the support, TM had more experience than Lennon and look how that ended up. Ex players dont always make the grade management wise, and Lennon has effectively only just stopped playing. He needs more time to step up for the big job but i think the board will see him a cheap option after how they have spent on TM, and that could be the deciding factor unfortunately.

 

Cracking post mate

I think its a good short-term appointment to try and get the feel-good factor until the end of the season and hopefully win a cup.

True he has no experience, but if the team performs well and we get results then why not give the guy a go? The guy reads the game very well as we know, so I don't think he needs to be churned through Largs coaching school or spend time at a smaller club to pick up knowledge of football.

Ultimately managers are there to try and motivate the players and set teams up tactically for games, I think he's more than capable of doing that.

You have to look at realistically who we can get in as well and whether its worth another hefty pay-out if it doesn't work out.

None of the names being mooted at he moment inspire me any more than Lenny if truth be told.

 

Great post i totally agree.. all i will say is i would rather have lennon than some other unknown "punt" but i do want to see a proven, experienced manager at the helm for a few years at least

 

youve just highlighted the delemma all tic fans have at the moment.
feel good or no good by the way great post mate.

 

as much as i want an expereince manager in if lenny closes the gap and wins the scottish i think he'll be offered the job as it will save the bored money and mite entise alot of fans to re new ther season books

IMo i want experience over lennon hope hes the gaffer in years to come but go away and learn yer trade somewhere else like the best have done

 

im bored of constant posts on this subject, he is the man till the end of the season, let him get on and judge him then ffs, boring boring boring..rakes of punters on all tic boards spouting the same * again and again.

 

dont tire yourself posting then and leave the rest of us to get on with it

 

very good post Oxford lad, the thing is after what i have seen with mugga
am sure Lenny cant do any worse.i think the board will be hunting for a new replacement anyway and if lenny is in the dug out as a right hand man i will take that. am also in the opinion of givin him a chance but this can backfire
we cant afford to stray next season again

if i was the in the board i would be looking to apoint someone with a bigger CV
and would be looking ASAP so he can change the team for the start of next season cant afford to be getting beat by pish teams in the first quarter next season or we are going down the same rd

 

I agree about many of the points you make, especially about this preconception that some fans have that being 'Celtic-minded- is some sort of pre-requisite for the manager's job. Such an attribute is a bonus, but not essential.

What is essential is as you have described; someone who has a proven track record of success, that has a bit of nous when it comes to European competition, somebody who can organise, that deals with the here and now, the reality, not some fantasy football land.

I do like Lenny, of course, I do. He was a great servant to the club, and for 6 or 7seasons he made just about every CM battle in Scotland his own, through sheer tenacity. But there is a big difference between being a successful player and being a successful boss. If he is appointed I will support him as I would any Celtic manager for one reason and one reason only - they are the manager of Celtic. If they are successful it means our team is successful.

However, given the time the board have at the moment, they have the best past of 2 months to find the right man, so that as soon as virtually the last ball is kicked in anger they have the whole summer to scout, a whole pre-season to work with the squad, and as much time as possible to get his ideas across.

We must get the right man. Simply, we cannot afford another mistake.

 

ahh the right man wake me up before you go go

 

If he does a good job and we keep winning with good performances, i will be happy for lenny to have it

 

I feel it's almost certainly going to be a case of next man in has to win the title in his first season to keep the job (extreme hard luck story maybe being the exception) , and with a contract like that on offer you aren't going to be prising anyone away from a better contract elsewhere..

What the board need to do is appoint a guy who has the same expectations as they do and then hold firm on it.. If they demand the league title next year and Lennon feels he can deliver (based on results from the remaining games) then I expect it will be him in the job next year and they will back him financially..
Im sure they gave approval to TM and his long term plan , but the board never once stated what their own ambitions and expectations were or what targets were set or if TM's job was under pressure.. You normally get an inkling through the media that the board and manager are on different wavelengths but not once did I feel that untill they actually sacked him..
I don't know if TM had demands on him to deliver immediate success (the title) but I honestly doubt it , and I never once heard TM himself talk about this seasons league title as a priority.. All I ever heard was "3 transfer windows and then judge me" , and "I hope Celtic fans can see what Im trying to do , build a team to win for years to come" before the final piece about his style maybe not being right for winning the SPL..
I don't think any manager will be told they'll be given plenty of time to put foundations down or gut the squad.. It's going to have to be immediate progress working with the majority of what we have..
I saw a newspaper headline where it quoted John Hartson as saying an entire new first team was required but I didn't read the full story but would imagine something like that getting publicity , along with our current league position and the gap below the huns (Which I believe to be exagerated by around 8 to 10 points) and it paints a picture that we are in a very sorry state and a lot of rebuilding and money is required to fix it..

It's not really that bad , Is it ?

 

An excellent opening post, couldn't agree more with your points.

Like the majority of Tic fans, I loved Lennon the player (still miss him) and like the way he comes across in the press. I honestly do wish him the very best for the rest of the season and would love to see us lift the SC with Lenny at the helm, but as for managing us long term....I'm really not that in favour of him being appointed full time manager simply because I don't think he has enough experience of managing a side who have such a high level of expectation around them.

My own feeling is that the board are going to offer the job to Levein. I can't quantify that with any proof, it's simply a hunch.

One thing that does rattlle my cage though is fans constantly bleating on about Celtic minded, Celtic man, etc. It's a fallacy and if anything offers the board an easy get out, as if they do approach another ex player who turns out to be a dismal flop, they can quite rightly turn around and lay the blame squarely at the fans feet for demanding a "Celtic Man"!

 

First of all, where you been mate? :icon_mrgreen:

I think if you look at the majority of threads related to the manager, not many fans are really bleating as you say about the next manager being 'Celtic-minded'.

The popular choices seem to be Billic and Hughes, neither of which are 'Celtic-minded'.

Like I said earlier, none of the names mentioned so far particularly inspire me, Levein included.

 

levien his only destination is ibrox i hope im here to prove it
right. and this celtic minded bollocks mindset has been created
by the the * meeja and now fans are swallowing it
.

 

I feel that if Lennon can win us the Scottish Cup and reduce the points margin to a less than embaressing gap, as it is now, then I'd like to see him as our full time manager.

Financially speaking, we can't afford to pry another manager away from their club as Mowbray, Venus and Grant have cost us in compensation alone, over 2 million quid. So if Lennon does well between now and the end of the season, then why not? It worked for Barca with Pep Guardiola and his managerial experience stretches no further than 1 year with the Barcelona B side...

I can already hear the clattering of keyboards as people start to type "...but he has Messi, Xavi, Iniesta etc in his side" true,...it's obvious that we have a lesser standard of player in comparison to Barca, but it's not as if we're in La Liga, this is the SPL and we have a good standard of players for our domestic level, the only thing that's missing for us us a couple of players and most importantly, a winning, determined, never say die attitude and I can see Lenny giving us that.

 

This ^

 

I agree with the OP, and I believe the appointment of Lenny as manager would be a huge and totally unnecessary gamble.
If it all goes * up, we'll end up in an even bigger mess, and maybe unrecoverable from a financial point of view.That fact that Chick Hun and all his blue nose cronies in the press and media are advocating Neil Lennon as boss should start the alarm bells ringing for us.