Mowbray & Barnes

I'd take that over not wining with mogga anyday

 

... whit?

League Two puts some of our football to shame. Most players in Scotland will either stay up here as journeymen or end up in the lower regions of The Football League.

I also say, again, that it is a far more competitive tournament. In the last 6 years there have been four different Champions, and only two sides have won promotion twice. No team has won the play-off's twice in the last four years also.

And since everyone's still ignoring the point, I take it you agree that Mowbray's record is nothing like Barnes?

Don't talk pish. Firstly, Strachan resigned entirely of his own accord. Secondly, can you actually provide anything in the way of supporting evidence for that one, or is it just throwing the toy out because we didn't win?

 

You say last 2 seasons were decline but we made last 16 CL in his 2nd last season. Many Celtic fans put style over success. Its a damaging part of our mythology IMO.

You say its irrelevant to rhe state of the squad when he left but I disagree. The difference between the squad that blew 4 in a row and those who did our 2nd last 16 and 3 in a row the year before was practically nil. The only difference between our final last 16 team and the one that lost 4 in a row was injuries. Mogga inherited a core - Artur, Hinkel, Naylor, mcManus, Caldwell, Brown, Skippy, Aidan, Maloney who had been a big part in that success. These were successful international players with loads of medals and CL experience. Not a bunch of journeymen and what is more their average age was c 25.

 

You honestly would not give the SPL some credit for instilling a much more disciplined passing game and tactically/defensively clever game in recent years? I think there has been a big improvement in the way teams play even if individuals are nothing special. Other wee countries have been using that coaching model for decades and we have finally caught one. That system was often used by international coaches of wee countries like in qualifiers and was a great leveller and really good at cancelling out the big teams. Basically a tight rather defensive possession passing based system is the best one to use with limited players. Its not always totally negative either. I cant believe you wouldnt say you have seen us playing SPL teams who have outpassed us several times this season. SPL football is about teams and tactics not individuals.

 

It remains as one of those great mysteries how that collection of players laden with medals , champions league experience etc couldn't beat a huns team to win the SPL title last year ? If the players were so good and obviously not at fault then it must be the manager to blame..

The 2 in a row teams had a leader in Lennon that Strachan inherited.. He tried replacing him with Gravesen , Hartley and , McManus... The team he left behind had no leadership.. That's something I hope has been adressed with the signing of Hooiveld and the addition of new players , including in the short term with the loan signings of Keane and Kamara..

There was a core of journeyman left at the club by Strachan , I honestly think your at it with your praise of guys who failed so miserably last season , and it's clear your definition of a journeyman is not the same as mine , some of who've been shipped out by TM already and more will surely follow.. The guys you've named include some good players for TM's team to build around but you called Barry Robson a fantastic footballer in a thread the other day so Im not sure I should take your judgement on any player as being remotely close to accurate.. You can carry one or two players in the SPL when we have the better starting 11 on the park but not as many as we tried to get away with last season.. League cup success aside , Last year was failure in terms of Europe and SPL capitualtion and no matter how many times you go on about Strachans first two seasons , it doesn't change those facts and adds weight to the suggestion that regression had set in during the final two seasons of Strachans tenure as the gap had clearly being narrowing to a huns team that everyone has labelled as poor..
That's the last from me as I've covered all that's irrelevant to the debate with you..

 

yeah I am knackered too know. Happy to agree to disagree

 

I was pretty impressed by a number of teams this season who managed to outpass us at times. I think its limited but what they do they do well. Even Killie played some really good quick passing stuff when they beat us. Hibs, Hearts, Dundee United, Motherwell, Falkirk etc have all given us some right good games based on passing over the last 2 or 3 years. There have been quite a few times when we have looked not have as good a passing game as SPL opposition. Each to their own but I just do not feel anywhere near as down on SPL football. It was far more niave and silly tactics wise and long ball about 10 years ago. I think what has happened is the top of the SPL has declined and the smaller teams have got far more canny about how they play so on a game by game basis anyone can win. I think the rise of Rangers in the 80s then us in the naughties turned the SPL into a meaningless turkey shoot with no appeal to sporting insticts for a while but it has returned a little more to its pre-Souness state recently. Granted though the SPL was a far better league in the 80s standard wise.

 

john barnes should neverrrrr have been brought into this club

ooooh we'l sign john barnes as manager cause he was a brilliant ex liverpool player and dalglish recommended him. What a joke the board were.

Comparing mowbray to barnes is ridiculous. Mowbrays earned his stripes with hibs and west brom, and should be allowed extra time to produce the goods. Barnes was a disaster waiting to happen from day 1.

 

i agree. Ir is an unfair comparison. Barnes was a totally ridicolous idea (giving a novice Celtic as a first job) while Mogga's problem is he has never managed a top team or a team who have to win. I just do not think Mogga really has the mentality for a team who simply must win all the time. It is possible with time and a bit more money thrown in (we still need at least one more good CH and perm poacher and a LB) he could come good next season but I just do not understand why he went about his busininess in such a way that it was almost certain we would not win this year. Is this an outbreak of longterm thinking by the board or just a complete mess by an incompetant. You cant be sure one way or another. I do not think he will be sacked this season because there is no point. I think what the board will expect is some respectablity lie getting the gap down to 4 points by the end of the season. If we end up 12 points behind then they have a big decision to make in the summer.

 

can people stop saying barnes had better players than TM, its true but TM is playing against teams that are worse than Barnes had to face, which includes a Rangers team that could be described as the worst in living memory where as Barnes was against pos the greatest Rangers team in history.

 

inverness?... john barnes.

he had no command in the dressing room, gould and viduka were apprently squaring up to each other at half time in that game.

He tried defending himself over the celtic sacking ...saying if only he had larrson at his disposal , he would have avoided the chop. Thats says it all realy. Larrson worldclass player that he was,,, doesnt win leagues on his own.

He had viduka, burchill, berkovic , petrov etc. Gd enough players to challenge rangers in that season.

 

Strachan was finally driven to resigning by the hordes of fans who had been baying for his blood since the moment he stepped through the door at CP

SUPPORTING EVIDENCE

I don't know what you want in terms of evidence because i was only stating my opinion but it is a well known fact that wgs was hounded after a run of two games without a win it seems mowbray is allowed to go 4-5 nowadays with barely a whimper from a lot of fans infact it dosen't seem to matter how many pts we lose anymore.

Lets face it if wgs had played for us then he would have got a much easier time and would probably still be in a job because of it, he left due to the huge deman for his head.

 

mowbray needs to go

 

So like I said, toys out of the pram. If you can't back up that claim about Mowbray, don't make that claim.