Dust has settled, calm reflection...

Start off by saying I am gutted after that tonight, really disappointed. Anyone watching could see we never deserved to lose but that has been the story too often this season. Being wasteful up top and loose at the back has undermined what are improved patterns of play under Mowbray and a step up technically and in pace from last year. So where to start?

First thing, without bashing WGS too much, at this time last year we were unbelievably bad. We were horrid to watch, trampling over the top of the clubs footballing traditions and, when given the opportunity to win the league by winning the last two games of the season, we could not do that. We could not even score a goal. Thus, as much as history often seems rosier on reflection, we were as atrocious then as we are now.

Now, on to Mogga. I have backed him to the tilt thus far but must admit doubts are beginning to creep in. But, as others have pointed out, please try and realise the financial reality of sacking him. Having spent the best part of £6/7 million on getting him here it would cost a huge amount in compensation to sack him after 7months and then another £6/7 million to bring in new staff. When this is combined with getting in new players for the new man, well, it would be a huge outlay and Mogga would be written in the accounts as a very expensive mistake.

Secondly, on the pitch, I can still find enough to keep the faith in Mogga. Firstly, look at the players he has brought in. When surveying the following list I see enough of a structured eye for building a squad to give some hope:

1) N'Guemo: an unmitigated success thus far and potential snip for the money we need. A real player, great find, well done.
2) Fortune: despite the negative pish sputed on here, another good player who is starting to deliver consistently. Big money spent but fairly well spent. Arguably, I accept, the jury is still out, but by no means a dud.
3) Fox: a fairly cheap investment who was a MASSIVE improvement of WGS's Naylor, with whom we had to put up with for 2 years of pish. Fox is tidier, faster, stronger, etc and also, as has been shown in this window, may bring in a tidy profit if moved on.
4) ZZ: free transfer who is versatile and tidy. No complaints.
5) Ki: convinced this lad will be an absolutely brilliant piece of business tonight. May have gone over too easily tonight (second game in a new league, if he'd won a free-kick and put in the top bag we'd all have been nursing semis) but thought he made a real difference when he came on. Thought of him and N'Guemo and a fit brown fighting for midfield, along with a tidy marc Crossas is delicious, frankly.
6) Hooveild: can't judge yet.
7) Rasmussen: also can't judge.

These players listed above, the ones we can fairly judge anyway, are an improvement, decent players, and so the lambasting of Mowbray must be dampened a little by that. We play at a quicker tempo and with better structures. SO what's the matter, why is it going so wrong?

I think now it is fair to outline his mistakes so far:

1) Selling Caldwell and Robson: was very surprised to see this happen. Despite the plethora of Caldwell related head banging smileys posted on here, a detached observer could see he was our best centre half of a bad bunch. Selling him seemed strange, especially as he was captaining the side and was experienced, vocal and a leader. We are now playing with two kids at the back and I think we miss him, despite his undeniable weaknesses. I think we also miss the needle that Robson brought. Very strange to sell those two, who were instrumental in good run before January.

2) We badly lack leadership. Seeing O'Dea as skipper is a joke and is a microcosmic representation of the much larger issue of no grown men who know what the club stands for and perform week in week out for us. The lack of experienced, aggressive, motivated, physical professionals is difficult to take, after a decade of Thompson/ Lennon/ Lambert/ Petrov/ Hartley/ Robson/ Sutton/ Hartson, etc. Their ability as footballers was different, some excellent and some mere grafters, but their spirit and professionalism brought us consistency.

3) Naka - perhaps under-rated when he was here, the precision of Naka's final ball from both set plays and in open play brought us many goals when he was here. His European-class quality, despite a tendency to go missing at times, is missed when breaking sides down.

4) And by far the most worrying: a seeming mismatch in the dynamic of the individual with the needs and demands of the club. Mogga seems overwhelmed, overawed and uncomfortable. His players often look the same. No-one plays with the chest out, despite so much ability in the squad (for SPL at least) and there is an evident lack of both character ad characters in the dressing room. This comes from the manager down, look at O'Neil (whom I adored) and Strachan (who I struggled to like, I'll admit): both men packed their team with character and personality. This team is like a wardrobe at times: static, wooden and quiet. A real concern.

SO what do you do? The million dollar question! Actually, perhaps it would be the over £10 million question as elucidated above. Mogga should be given until mthe end of the season. Wth Brown back I think he will give us more go forward and dynamism in the midfield, as will N'Guemo on return and Ki, who I can't wait to see week in week out. Maloney will add options and Skippy, for all his faults, will provide a few goals for sure. Is the league over: if we stay as flaccid as we seemed tonight, then I think it is? Mathematically and in all footballing senses, no, there are 2 old firms left and points to play for. Mogga, for financial reasons and because he deserves more time with his players than 7months will stay. We will improve from this point. But by the close of the year, I must see a change in character and feeling from the players in the glorious hoops, or I too may start posting head-banging littered threads screaming to 'get Mogga * oot!', the favoured pass-time of so many TC users.

Let's calm down, give it time and try and change that dynamic a little ourselves, by showing the attributes of faith, loyalty and patience we purport to have but lately rarely show.

Hail Hail!
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I agree with everything other than the highlighted.

 

hail hail. what infuriates supporters most is when there seems to be a lack of hope going forward. there isn't much to look forward to based on the result and performance tonight but more lucid reflection like this is useful in trying to move ahead in supporting the club we love. thank you

 

why do you not agree with what you highlighted Mickcfc91?

 

He's worse than Barnes ffs ,the stats dont lie ,

 

Sorry I ment to only highlight those parts.

1) I thought the time was right to sell both Robson and Caldwell. I have no doubt that Caldwell was the best defender at the club but Caldwell had no interest in signing a new deal so any money we could get was a bonus. Robson on the other hand I was never a fan of him. Fans claimed he had ''dig" but you need a bit more in my eyes. Robson was the king of passing the ball back or sideways. He used to hit the ball and hope for the best.

3) I kind of agree with this point but dont. I do think we miss his brilliant delivery and free-kicks but the time was right aswell. He just never brung enough to the table. He wasnt replaced well enough although Ki is more than capable of being our dead ball specialist. We really lack delivery from our wingers.

 

Naka for 2 years was the best quality footballer at the club. The players said so and I trust their opinion more than a thousand spectators and journalists. His last year he picked up a few knocks in his ankle and his delivery was just not what it had once been. A tragic reality of an aging lithe footballer in the SPL. He got a bit less agile and a bit slower on the sprint too. It was his time to move on.


My big observation is that we don't counter attack so well and we build up at a pace that allows teams to bunker down and settle. I feel we have to be quicker and more efficient on the break. Taking the ball down the wing and crossing it, no matter how well heighted or paced the ball is, is still is a game of odds between the attackers and defenders.

 

one of the best, most measured posts i've read on here .

no-one likes to see us so far behind a poor Huns team, but we have to understand the restictions and pressure TM is operating under. how many quality players are really going to come to Scotland? how many quality players are we going to be able to pay? how many players will want to play for Celtic when all that's going to happen is ripped to shreds by the papers, radio, phone ins and fans forums?

i genuinely think we are heading in the right direction with all the signings over the past 2 years. planning for the future is the way to go for celtic. whether TM will want to stay around and see it through is another thread all together.

 

We have quality in our side but we lack some other vital elements.

 

The Huns haven't signed a player for about 2 seasons and are absolutely *, yet they are now 10 points clear of us - surely that fact says it all. Mowbray is destroying the club and needs to be sacked now before we end up scrapping for 3/4th place at best. Fact - his record is worse than Barnes.

So called "players" like Samaras are getting paid huge money for nothing.

 

So many things wrong with this post.....

1) Last player Rangers signed was Aug 08....thats less than 2 seasons.

2) Yes 10 points behind, but only 7 if we win on Tues against a poor Killie, plus we seem to play better away from home

3) Scrapping for 3rd/4th at best?? Are you serious?

4) I take it the 12 goals Sammy has scored this season is nothing?

 

This is killing me, its absolutely killing me but I can't help but like Mowbray and beleive in what he is trying to do. What's killing me is that i feel this way about Mowbray, but when I watch his Celtic team perform...well, I think we all know how dispairing it is. I literally can't watch at times, i have my hands over my face like its the scarriest horror film ever. Its just pure and simple frustration as I watch at times terrible football, then at other times wonderful football but with no end product.

So where does that leave me, well it leaves me as a loyal, faithful supporter who is choosing to give the man at the helm the time he needs. I'm sorry to say that this is not 7 months, 12 months, not at all. When I look at what he has done so far, mainly the players he has bought and the approach to raining etc, I see his vision. I see he wants us to play at a level of ability that we have not been at since our heydays. I get the fact that this may be an experiment that never comes off, but compared to some of the grey days of WGS, I am willing to give TM at least two full seasons to get things going.

Never in my life have I witnessed a manager come in and make such a fundamental and widespread change to the footballing philosophy and I agree with it 100%. Look at guys like Ki, Nguemo, Fortune, the offer something very differenet as players. Considering they are not slotting into a tried and tested formation, they have looked good. What we have to appreciate is that the spine of the team has gone. Yes it's a dangerous way to do things, but it looks like TM is willing to suffer intense, short-term pain, in the hope of long-term success. Now I mean long term. He's putting things into play that could see us benefit for years down the line. The next decade of football at Celtic Park could be some of the best...and worst to begin with.

I for one am going to man up, take it on the chin and simply hope that the man gets things going the way he wants. If that takes two years of difficulty then so be it. I'm not a fan for a year, its for life. I for one beleive TM could have a significant impact on the future of our beloved, just so long as the media and fans take a bit of perspective...chance is a fine thing.

 

We'll really see what our club is made of in the coming month. I'm still looking forward to it all.

 

I agree about the sale of Caldwell, mate. I would have been hoping Hoodveild would have slipped in right away - playing essentially a youth team player and another slightly older young lad with not a great deal of experience as a central defensive partnership is asking for trouble.

 

Last night our CB's combined were the same age as david Weir.

 

Its mad that people quite literally forced Barnes out the door when Mowbray has a worse record and people keep saying give him time, were turning into what he had at west brom and hibs playing no bad football but winning * all.

 

The problem we have, especially on this forum is the amount of Glory Hunters. Guys(prob young boys) spouting 'get him tae *' 'as * as Barnes', get a grip. No doubt used to the success of the SPL years where we have been at the top.
I remember the Brady/Macari/Burns(* rest him) era when were winning hee haw, there was no cry to sack managers after 6 months!

Mowbray is working with a team that failed to win the SPL last season(apart from 3 players,pre transfer window). He is trying to introduce a new way of playing and obviously he has some players who simply won't conform.
He is trying to put HIS stamp on HIS team by replacing and bringing in new faces.
This is not something that can be done overnight. The cries of 'sack him' are ludicrous. Why? Because we may not win the league? Because some of the 'Glory Hunters' want us to win the league all the time? You can't win all the time. I am hurting at our current predicament, falling 10 points behind a very average Hun team but they have something that we don't STABILITY.
Same team,manager,backroom etc for the best part of 4 years.

We have introduced a whole new concept at CP and sometimes these things take time. Once TM has HIS team playing HIS way then we can judge him.

I for one will be giving him time. IF we fail to win the league this season but i can see a vast improvement on the playing field then it is a a small sacrifice to pay.

Sometimes you have to go backwards before you can go forwards.

Hail Hail

P.s To concur, an excellent post by oxford67

 

We talk about the transfer " In's and Out "this transfer window, the board are still taking the Mickey, what have they really spent £1.75 Mil ?

We got money for Caldwell and Robson (£1.5 million approx), we've brought in Hooiveld (£1.5 Mil) and Rasmussen (£1.75). Rogne will likely costus somewhere in the £250K region, while we saved on Flood and Killen wages.

Many other names have been mentioned such as Senderos, Kilbane, St Ledger, all which are known players, but none have been landed. If Mac Donald, Fox and Mc Geady are sold between now and Sunday midnight Mr Lawwell has played a stormer for the board, there won't be anyone sitting in the stands next season, but has St Peter Lawwell done well !!!

 

you have to accept that players like st ledger they dont wanna lose him in the middle of the season unless its silly money and it will be the same at any club who are challenging for anything for instance they pulled out of giroud because he was supposed to be staying until the end of the season then he moves

 

I'm 100% with you on this...