Liam Scales

What has your nationality to do with it? It's Scales nationality that's the issue. If Maik Nawrocki had played like Scales has done, people would be sayin he's a very solid defender because he bought him from Poland and paid £4.5m for him. The fact is Scales has seen off Nawrocki, Lagerbielke and Trusty all on merit. Should we be trying to get a better CB than him to push on in Europe? Certainly. As of now he's the best defender we have here aside from CCV.

 

I don't disagree on Scales being a squad player but I don't think Trusty has had the consistency to oust Scales. Domestically anyway Scales looks more suited to the physical side of the game and I think one reason Rodgers has him in the side ahead of Trusty is Scales is our most progressive defender on the ball. As he has played quite a lot of his football at left back he is much more accustomed to carrying the ball up the pitch and is more comfortable taking on the ball in advanced areas.

Trusty had a very unimpressive first year for me. He did have two excellent games v Bayern though. He did well over preseason but unfortunately for him so did Scales who has the jersey now and has started the season off well. Think Simpson Pusey will have a hard time forcing himself into the team over the coming season.

 

JSP is a complete novice though, he's a similar enough level to Osmand is he not? I'd say the expectation is he might get 15-20 games this season. He has CCV, Scales and Trusty ahead of him now. I don't see him featuring until after the international break.

 

Credit for what? The bare minimum?

No… obviously not. You’ve used an absolute basic moment in a game to try and back up your argument, when it actually hurts you.

You’re so focused on stats, lets look at a bigger picture. The whole of last season.

Scales:
Tackles per 90 - 1.28
Interceptions per 90 - 0.76

CCV:
Tackles per 90 - 1.07
Interceptions per 90 - 1.22

Trusty:
Tackles per 90 - 1.64
Interceptions per 90 - 1.08

What that tells you pretty simply is that CCV makes less tackles because he reads the game so well. He interceps the ball more, so tackles aren’t even needed.

It also tells you Trusty is more efficient than Scales defensively. But we knew that using our eyes.

Scales isn’t really standing out in either. His strength comes from his effort. You know he’s putting his body in the line or attempting to make a last ditch challenge. But we want to be in positions where we don’t need to make these last ditch challenges. Statistically, since it’s so important to you… Scales is 3rd best. It’s just a fact.

Passing;

Scales:
Passes - 117.14
Completion - 92.47%

CCV:
Passes - 111.25
Completion - 94.4%

Trusty:
Passes - 112.25
Completion - 93.89%

The passing stats show that he’s the least efficient. But yes he takes more risks. All these things have to be considered. He had more passes, but remember these are mostly sideways or backwards passes.

The stats are just for you btw. Not to back up my argument. An argument that you claimed is hate for Scales, which you’re wrong about. You actually claimed that with zero posts slating the guy, apart from saying we are * if he’s our back up left back.

The biggest factor that has to be considered is look at the stats and then look at the situations where he’s losing the ball. These moments stand out. That intercepted pass against Aberdeen that had them through on goal is a prime example. He does the simple pretty well, but once that simple ball isn’t on… mistakes creep in.

Bottom line, we can do a lot better. Trusty is better and people have the same hate for him that you say people have for Scales. Trusty must be Irish too.

 

I prefer Trusty too but drawing conclusions on such high level stats doesn't really work.

 

If you read my post, thats pretty much exactly what I’m saying.

Your man brought up Scales’ match stats from the weekend to try and paint a false narrative. The stats were for him.

Stats are one small part of a much bigger picture.

 

Ok, let's focus on stats so. From WhoScored using SPL games last season, 1st being our best performer in these statistics, some will have the highest score as the best and some will have the lowest score as the best.

Dribbled past per 90:
1. CCV 0.1
2. Scales 0.2
3. Trusty 0.5

Interceptions per 90:
1. CCV 1.2
2. Scales 1
3. Trusty 0.7

Clearances per 90:
1. Scales 5.7
2. CCV 5.4
3. Trusty 4.2

Shots blocked per 90:
1. Trusty 0.9
2. Scales 0.4
3. CCV 0.3

Tackles per 90
1. Trusty 1.6
2. Scales 1.2
3. CCV 1


Crosses blocked per 90:
1 = Trusty & Scales 0.3
3. CCV 0.0

Passes blocked per 90
1 = Trusty & Scales 0.4
3. CCV 0.2

Aerial duels per 90
1. Scales 8.6
2. Trusty 7.2
3. CCV 5.9

Aerial duels won per 90
1. Scales 6.3 (73%)
2. Trusty 4.6 (63%)
3. CCV 4.3 (73%)

Unsuccessful touches per 90
1. CCV 0.4
2. Scales 0.5
3. Trusty 0.8

Dispossessed per 90
1. Scales 0
2. CCV 0.1
3. Trusty 0.2

Accurate long balls per 90
1. Trusty 2.9
2. Scales 2.8
3. CCV 2.1

Inaccurate long balls per 90
1. Trusty 1.5
2. CCV 1.8
3. Scales 2.3

Accurate short passes per 90
1. Scales 103.9
2. Trusty 102.6
3. CCV 101

Inaccurate short passes per 90
1. CCV 3.7
2. Trusty 5.4
3. Scales 6.6

Key passes per 90
1. Scales 0.4
2= Trusty & CCV 0.2

Throughballs per 90
1. Scales 0.1
2= Trusty & CCV 0

Assists per 90
1. Scales 0.1
2= Trusty & CCV 0

Fouled per 90:
1= Scales & Trusty 0.7
3. CCV 0.5

Fouls per 90
1. Trusty 0.6
2= CCV & Scales 0.8

Successful dribbles per 90
1. Scales 0.3
2. Trusty & CCV 0.1

Unsuccessful dribbles per 90
1. CCV 0
2. Scales 0.1
2. Trusty 0.2

Goals per 90
1. Scales 0.1
2= Trusty & CCV 0

Avg Rating
1. Scales 7.48
2. CCV 7.31
3. Trusty 7.28

Statistically speaking Scales was our best performing defender in the SPL last season. While he might have given the ball away more (marginally), he was also our best performing defender in terms of goals, assists, long passes attempted, key passes, successful dribbles and through balls. This all points to Scales being the most progressive defender we have on the ball, all these stats point to someone who is proactive on the ball and doesn't just play the short and safe conservative passes. He looks to advance the play much more than either CCV or Trusty and this is probably part of the decision in why Rodgers plays him over Trusty

Aerially Scales is also our best defender with the most aerial duels competed and won, in % terms also. And he did not rank last in any of the pure defensive metrics.

 

A false narrative? That's a mad thing to say

Statistics are not perfect or defenitive but one thing they are is an objective and independent metric. Your opinions are highly subjective and seem to be ones dealing in a false narrative of reality.

 

Yes that’s it.

Disregard the Champions League and the games we are really tested to twist stats in your own favour

You’ve entirely missed my point, or even added to it. Stats don’t tell the whole story. I wasn’t posting stats to discredit Scales and prove you wrong, I posted them to show you that there’s a much bigger picture.

I think you’re struggling to understand that.

Football stats are not completely objective and independent.

A miss placed pass could be an 8 yard pass straight to the defenders feet or a 40 yard diagonal. On the stats sheet it just goes down as a number, but when we use our eyes and critical thinking we can understand the stats a lot better. They can not be used alone as a measuring stick, which you’ve tried to do to discredit what people have seen with their eyes.

We’ve gone full circle now, hopefully you understand.

 

out of curiosity can you check how many headers he wins and it actually goes back to one of our players? Another one of my big criticisms (not just Scales btw) of our CB’s is that they just seem to head the ball and not try and aim it towards one of our players. Doubt you’ll be able to find that info but I always bring it up to my old man. Infuriating.

 

Stats don't always show the big picture. You could say with stats that Leigh Griffiths is on Larssons level for a couple of seasons. But when it actually matters in big games that win you stuff, the player fall flat on his * and gets found out.

 

CCV was actually the worst for that last season.

 

Yeah agree with that

 

* meaningless stats. Trusty over Scales any day of the week

 

We haven't played any CL games yet. SPL is our bread and butter though and that's why Scales is prefrred in these games, he is far more progressive on the ball, he gets more involved in our attacking plays, he is happy to step up like he did on Sunday and play a role in our opening goal.

You have entirely missed my point. Whatever you think about stats, they are entirely independent and objective, they will tell you exactly who is the best defender aerially or who is the most progressive passer etc and when people like you come out with entirely subjective nonsense, stats are very important to assess whether you are engaging in good faith.

Of course they are not entirely binding and of course they are not the only factor to rely but I do find it interesting you want to completely disregard them, the only wholly objective marker, because they contradict your subjective views. There's a lack of balance and a lack of compromise in your beliefs, maybe you should be allowing the stats to make you rethink.

You wanted the CL stats. I can find those for you no problem, the issue is you don't want to hear them if they contradict your subjective views.

A 40 yard diagonal is classified as a long ball. Did you not even read the stats as they are broken up by the range, short passes and long passes? If you want to make distinctions or add scrutiny on the relevance of stats you should actually examine them first so you can make a coherent criticism.

FYI - here they are:

Accurate long balls per 90
1. Trusty 2.9
2. Scales 2.8
3. CCV 2.1

Inaccurate long balls per 90
1. Trusty 1.5
2. CCV 1.8
3. Scales 2.3

Accurate short passes per 90
1. Scales 103.9
2. Trusty 102.6
3. CCV 101

Inaccurate short passes per 90
1. CCV 3.7
2. Trusty 5.4
3. Scales 6.6

 

Defensive headers aren't about trying to find a player, they're about trying to get he ball safe, be that distance or knocking the ball out of play. I have played football and been involved in coaching at * level for years and I have never heard anyone asking a player to be trying to find a team mate with a header from a cross or free or long ball up the pitch as the majority of the time you are being challenged in the air. It's about getting the ball far enough away or out of play so you have the chance to regroup and find your defensive shape again. It's extremely difficult to control headers in terms of weight and direction to be accurately finding people particularly in terms of being challenged in the air, you have to win that header and get it safe - that's the only job expected from the defender.

The aerial stats are all duels so they only look at headers where an opposing player is jumping for the ball also. Scales is the best performing player in the entire squad in terms of aerial duels won.

 

Which ones are meaningless?

Scales apparently is a bombscare on the ball. Yet his pass completion rate is just 2% below CCV and 1% below Trusty.

Scales is apparently shocking on the ball but he is actually far and away our most progressive passer on the ball, he is the best defender we have at carrying the ball forward too.

Is that why you don't like the stats, they are objective and contradict your subjective analysis. You don't like Scales or rate him but that clouds your judgement of him and doesn't allow you to fairly assess his performances. Stats are objective and that's why they are an important marker and its why an awful lot of clubs use these to identify players nowadays.