Atmosphere today = Fantastic, THE SONG DEBATE..

You are reading the papers too much pal. Im a decent person and I am not offended by IRA songs whatsoever. I sometimes do not support the IRA's tactics in what it has done but I do support its principles and its cause. IRA songs offend Protestant Unionists who tend to be very single minded and ignorant i.e anything that is not British and Protestant would offend them. I appreciate losing someone in an IRA attack would be a terrible thing but Ive lost relatives in the early 20th century to the Black and Tans and the British army. Celtic is a club of Irish culture, no Scottish newspaper has the right to tell us what parts of Irish culture can and cannot be celebrated incase we offend these British Protestants who dont think twice about singing UVF songs or the famines over go home. THis is quite accepted however that this is what Rangers do and nothing will ever be done about it again. Your living in a country that will always, one way or another opress you for no other reason but you are a Catholic of Irish decent, this may dilute through the centuries but it will NEVER change. They persecuted our people in Ireland and they persecute our people here and find it perfectly normal behaviour. They march the streets in anti-Catholic marches singing about our deaths and killing us. You would not be allowed to march the streets in an anti-Jewish or anti-Muslim march but an anti-Catholic march is ok. The British press will always tell you that IRA songs are wrong because we are offending these people. Just because they say it does not make it true. The IRA's cause is just and right and considering the behaviour of the people we are supposed to be offending then I do not particularly care if we offend them or not, they would see us dead in a second for our religion so we should I care if we offend them?

 

First, i'm not your 'pal' so don't try to patronise me about reading papers and in the process make assumptions about why i find these chants disgusting.

I don't need a watered down one sided history lesson from a pro IRA poster.

IRA songs offend a * site more that loyalists and protestants, that's why 99% of fans at home games won't sing them, because the IRA disgust most of us, as do the loyalists gangs etc etc. As did the british army in the 60s and 70s etc etc bla bla bla, heard it all before.

The press don't need to tell me IRA songs are wrong, I BELIEVE they're wrong.

If you've ever spent any time in Ireland rather than just reading about it, you'd realise that the majority of the people who were involved in IRA/RSF etc activities were just major criminals who attached themselves to a cause. Over here they'd be normal villians and drug dealers (Which they are anyway).

Very romantic notion that the IRA was full of freedom fighters who just loved their country and defended it.
Truth is a long, long way off that i'm afraid.

No one will take our complaints seriously about the offensive songs sung by the scum about famine etc IF WE CONTINUE TO ACT LIKE * SINGING IRA SONGS.

I've said it before and i'll say it again. It makes us no better than them, end of story.

 

1916 rising obviously isn't part of the actual first generation immigrant's heritage. The point i'm making is that it is part of our heritage, the way the famine is part of our heritage.

I'm saying that Celtic was founded by the irish, for the irish and so we should be able to sing about the oppression the irish have faced and the glorious moments in irish history, none more so than the 1916 rising and ultimately the founding of the free state, later to become the republic.

 

Nope, disagree with you mate (oh sorry, better not try and be friendly that might patronise you). It is ok to believe that the IRA are wrong, thats your opinion, I believe the IRA are right and that is mine. I have spent time in Ireland, all of my family are from Ireland and I do know what Im talking about. I am a degree student in history and only trying to tell you my point not a watered down one sided history lesson like you were saying. If it hadnt been for the IRA and the military threat they provided Catholics in Ireland would still not be allowed to vote, therefor would still be predomenantly unemployed and forced to live in slums while armed loyalist thugs - the B Specials raided their homes, beat them up and destroyed their property for no official reason. The IRA will always be branded as terrorists through British propoganda i.e the newspapers and media because they are obliged to do so as they are a threat to British security. The British did nothing to relieve the persecution the Irish have had to put up with in Britain and in Ireland, the IRA did and broke the old system when IRish Catholics had nothing and no hope of gaining anything. I do not agree with your view and I do not agree with you slating me for having a different opinion from you, this is common trait amongst loyalists and orangemen to condemn anyone who has a different opinion from them. I do not and never have hated anyone for their religion but I will not put up with being persecuted for my religion. THe IRA helped the Irish people get to where they are today, I respect their role in Irish history and the history of the IRish people and can only wonder how we'd be treated today if it wasnt for the IRA

 

This is a bit different but I want your opinion. Whats different from them singing The Famine Song and singing, ' Go Home You Huns' ?

Had this arguement with a mate.

 

* post jimmi, why your offended at him calling you his pal is baffling, it certainly wasn't intended as an insult.
As for you speaking for 99% of Celtic season ticket holders, load of * i'm afraid, everyone has their reasons, many and varied, no one is telling you your not entitled to your view, but your view doesn't make you any better than the next fan.
If you read the entire thread and speak to lots of fans going to parkhead, i think you'd probably find more support the irish in their struggle for their human rights, than those who like you, view them as nothing more than criminals, villians, and feel disust at their very mention.

I do agree with you that the IRA will have had mindless thugs attached to its ranks, but to think it was and always was nothing more than a scummy criminal ring is bullshit.

 

I believe a great deal more of the n.Irish catholic people were concerned about equality than sovereignty during the troubles and their views were better represented by the SDLP than the IRA. I believe that equality could have been achieved in the mid 70s by the Sunningdale Agreement which was very similar to the good Friday agreement. The hothead element - the loyalists and the IRA rejected it. The SDPL (who were NI's civil rights driving force) accepted it as did the mainstream Ulster Unionists. The only major difference between the agreements was that the extremists didnt support Sunningdale. That cost 20 years or more of ruined lives.

Thats why for me the provos as well as the loyalists of that period will always be considered misguided idealists with a serious lack of humanity and without a majority mandate from their own people. I will give them this though, they eventually saw sense and became realistic but they took far too long. Young men should never ever be put in political positions of life and death. Very few people agree with their own hothead views a few decades later and thats because you have no perspective and really know SFA when young.

 

You sound like someone who actually knows something about it, not just * from one sided family versions of history or totally one sided books on the matter. I have to be honest, I cant take seriously most Scottish tims stuff about the troubles cause it is so one sided and simplistic it would be funny if it wasnt so tragic. Funny thing is you would rarely hear such starry eyed stuff about the ra in n.Ireland itself ouside the most hardline ghettos. Its always so black and white but thats what you get if you swallow the official dogma and just spew it back out. I laugh at all the stuff like '800 years under the butchers apron and its jackboots'.

History is just far more complex. Heres one-the Irish (Irish speaking Celts) themselves were probably militaty elites and conquerers and dominators of the peoples who had been living in Ireland for the previous 5000 years or so when they arrived. History is never simple.

 

Agree with a large degree of that mate.
I do believe the ra thought the bullet was their only means of forcing the british hand and getting what they wanted, but i, like you think it was misguided.
You seem well up on your history so would i be right in saying sunningdale was largely brought down by the ulster workers strike orchestrated by paisley?

 

yes thats true but it may have stood a chance if the IRA had joined the SDLP and UUP. That was enough to get the Good Friday Agreement with all the nationalists and more than half the unionists. If they had isolated the loyalists, its possible that the loyalists would have been squashed. They would have at best been representing a quarter of the population. Problem is I think it just spiralled once it started.

 

If ya reckon you guys are struggling, Come sit with me at one of our games

 

I found the fact you took offence to hiphopaddict calling you " pal " astonishing. It just shows that you moan constantly. You are never positive. It's fans like you that are Killing the atmosphere at CP . Let the people sing

 

Aye, that's basically what i had in my head.
It sounds as tho politically we would be similar enough but just differ on the singing at the matches.
As i've said a few times, i'm against sectarian singing and chanting but have no problem with the songs referring to the IRA in the early part of the 20th century. I love singing these songs along with the songs about immigration as it's a way for me to express my pride at being irish while at the sametime not be sectarian. It results in a magnificent unoffensive atmosphere in my opinion.
No point in saying anymore though. If you don't agree, fair enough. We're just going round in circles

 

Problem is most Scots who are not of Irish decent know as much as Irish folk know about Welsh history and the old/new distinction is lost on them. As I said, its also not as clear cut a distinction in terms of tactics as people make out either. It is true that the struggle in the south was relatively straight forward in that it really was a people throwing off a thinly spread foreign colonial elite.

However, I just think those who make out the north to be the same (which is republican dogma) just dont want to face the truth. Today (and thats all that counts), what makes the north impossible to resolve is not the two governments or imperialism etc, its that there are two populations of equalish size with totally incompatible world views. There was a demographic change centuries ago that means the status quo cannot be simply reversed unless its by civil war and genocide. Northern Ireland is a demographic not a simple political problem.

Major compromise like now had to be the way and I dont think suddenly having a united Ireland when there are 4 more catholics than protestants is going to help either. You would just have the troubles in reverse. Its going to have to be a lot more subtle than that or the typical views of unionists and republicans. Long term, joint authority is likely IMO. Could happen in a few decades. I think both governments will agree to it to prevent civil war and I think they will agree to it as an indefinate settlement before there is a catholic majority, perhaps in 20 years time. Thats my guess.

 

Guys, what the * are the Fields of Athenrye?

 

hunz

can u hear the rangers sing? no noo can u hear the rangers sing? no no can you hear the rangers sing? can you hear a fukin hing? noo nooo noooo

 

"The Fields of Athenry" is a terrorist song about a filthy criminal who stole from an upstanding landlord. 99% of Celtic supporters won't sing it, don't agree with it, and in general have no time for the Irish cause.

 

That's a ludicrous statement mate. Have you ever been to a Celtic game ? I doubt it.

 

I was trying to be rediculous in the vein of some people's characterizations! I guess sarcasm doesn't always translate over a keyboard!

I hope nobody else mistakens such a ludicrous sentiment!!

 

The fact is if people would get off their * and sing normal, non-offensive Celtic songs (to the letter of UEFA laws that is folks!) this debate probably wouldnt even take place.

IMO, if it takes some IRA songs to get us going at the game, theirs something far wrong.