Daniel Cummings

Not while we are as strong as we are.

2 guys you mentioned and Tierney all came in while squad was weak or during period of downturn.

Now the changes of an 18year old playing in lowland league being better than anyone in our current squad is almost zilch

 

Doak would have made it, if he'd stayed.. so they do come through.. he maybe looks exceptional though.

 

If we are gonna forever play that game or refusing to give them even a chance on the bench, then yeah we may as well completely scrap the youth setup fully.
Sack the coaches, release all the contracts, end any association's with schools, park the barrowfield development and pull out all money invested in any form of youth football.


We can't continue to ignore youth talent at this club. It's truly a sad day when Celtic can't afford one spot on the bench for a youth prospect, when we have 8 bench spots.

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It's not about them being better than the first team players.
It's about spotting the potential talent - that may or may not come good - and giving them a chance.


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Iv said for years the entire set up needs overhauled. Starting with McCart.

Do that then maybe we mite see youth getting a change but in it's current state there's no chance

 

Change should come through loan deals. Mite give O'Dea something to do tho

 

Given the number of subs who can be listed now I don’t see how one spot shouldn’t/cant go towards the likes of this kid.
Then in the last 10/15 mins of games we are well ahead in bring them on.

 

At the same time, there's no point in giving gametime to players that have no intention of staying at the club.

As much as people make an issue out of ' pathways' etc we've given Doak, Vata and Kelly game time in recent seasons only to watch them use the fact they're now getting minutes at Celtic as leverage for a better deal elsewhere (usually to the benefit of their agent) and leave for a pittance. When in reality they're no more likely to make it at the club down South that's promising them the earth to get them to sign.

If they're not willing to sign a long term deal what's the point of playing them in the last year of their contract only for them to leave for nothing? The club do need to a better job at keeping on top of contract extensions though or these situations will continue to happen.

 

It's about the only thing a supposed "pathway manager" can do, is find decent loans.

But as always, what was O'Dea background in successfully doing that? (Dig at the club not yourself or others here).

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Mind Vata was basically, publicly, promised to be 3rd choice striker.
Don't blame him for refusing that "offer" when it's evident for years we don't, as a club, actually get these guys ready for that role or give them that chance.




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This is the most important thing to remember here. Rodgers is right to keep the standards as high as he does, so if these boys aren't up to the task of holding their own with the first team then they should be made to keep working towards it.

Said it many times, talent is one thing but there's a lot more to it if you want to be a Celtic player. Hopefully he and a few others keep working away and don't take the easy way out.

 

The when your good enough you will get your chance v we have a massive opportunity to blood new players domestically over the next 6 months that will lead into a pre season .

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Aye said it before. It was a position that desperately needs filled, unfortunately we took cheap option and gave it to someone with experience of the city rather than the job

 

Kelly was given plenty of chances last season but was poorly advised imo and * off at the first opportunity. He’s now watching from the stands at * millwall. Vata the same at Watford. For what it’s worth I think Kelly was decent but not as good as how he was talked up.

Admittedly I haven’t seen anything of Cummings other than some highlights and he looks good but clearly going by Rodgers comments he’s still some way off knocking on the door for a place in the first team.

 

See the one for me and I know it was preseason but Matthew Anderson who is out at Admira Wacker, goes out on the US Tour and does fairly well when called upon, looks a reasonable prospect then doesn’t even get a decent loan.

Mitchell Frame came in to a CL game last year didn’t look out of place, is playing 5th tier football this season.

We had one of our young prospects out on loan last year to league 1 in England and yeah he didn’t make it here but we sold him for £2.2m without really kicking a ball for us.

We need to be building on those sort of loans by getting other players out to play at a decent level. Even SPFL level or top of the Championship, Dane Murray seems to be doing well for Queen’s Park, why not get more of the boys out playing.

 

Spot on about Kelly being overrated, but was a decent prospect..

Vata was a weird one. Clearly didn't want to stay at any costs and Rodgers mentioned he would've been our 3rd choice striker, yet I'm sure any of his wee cameos he was brought on as a winger?

Cummings I haven't seen much of but looks and sounds a player by the little i have seen/heard..

Truth is, none of these boys, particularly the 2 that already left were anywhere near as talented as Mikey Johnston coming through....or Doak..

I have high high hopes for Frame. Rapid. Good size. Explosive on the ball. Real potential. Seen glimpses of it when he ran at Geertruida for the first team. Badly needs a good loan and pathway in January though..

He's been getting assists against Brugge and Leipzig and could be a serious serious option for us down that whole left flank if we manage him right and he stays lucky with injuries..

 

Just saying same there and elsewhere on Anderson..

It's criminal..

I remember even when we signed Luca Connell. Was playing in the championship, think he went on loan to Scottish league 1 for 2 year or something. Was easily good enough for a top flight club..

Went back to England and was playing for a top end league 1 club at worst..

Some of our loans like Anderson are bizzare. Killed it last year. Was excellent on our American tour. Goes back to the same diddy club. Make it make sense. What kinda development will that do for him for a boy almost 21 in the Austrian second tier again..

Frame will be 19 soon. Something will have to give there..

 

Think the fact we keep punting players on loan to third tier Scottish football and the likes is also part of the reason so many are happy to go elsewhere.

Don't think guys like Doak or Morrison thought they was walking in to the Liverpool or Bayern sides at all. But the chance to train with that calibre of player and the backroom staff that will dwarf ours, then knowing that the loan structure they utilise is so much more advantageous than what we are able to get for them.

Liverpool player loaned to Middlesbrough sounds a much better career/path than Celtic to Greenock Morton (no offence Morton).


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Doak was getting game time in title deciding matches having just turned 16 so lets not pretend he would be out on loan in the Scottish Championship nearly 3 years on from that.

If Doak had stayed he'd have been one of our 3 main wingers for the past 18 months at least and would be playing Champions League football rather English Championship football. Likewise, Morrison has hardly got great loans that were outwith what he could've got staying here.

Vata is the classic example, if he'd just signed a new deal last summer he would've probably got a decent amount of game time at RW and ST over the course of last season the way things worked out yet people still blame the club. Instead, he's swapped the promise of 3rd choice striker, which Rodgers has actually backed up by selling Oh on in the summer, for 3rd choice at Watford. He's swapped playing for the club he actually supports, being coached by BR and learning his trade from the likes of Kyogo, Idah Forrest etc to learning his trade off Bayo and a guy who struggles for game time ahead of Bayo. That might be a bit harsh on Bayo who I actually quite liked but Vata would've been far better staying and modelling his game off Kyogo imo.