I don't think this changes anything.

You could tell in the first 5 minutes of the game we were in trouble with the tactics Rogers was using and 3 Dortmund players running towards our goal against 2 Celtic centre backs with no sign of Johnson and Taylor still up at * half way line .
We need to adapt especially playing against teams like Dortmund and not using the same formation and tactics like we were playing st.johnstone or we will get similar score lines especially against Atalanta.

 

This, for me.

I haven't changed my view on any players but I genuinely thought Rodgers would come into this season far more pragmatic and try to progress us. I'm still in a bit of shock that he set us up like that last night.

I don't see the point of getting to the playoff round in this tournament if this is how we will set up.

And by the way, I also don't see the point in backing him with more players to try and progress in Europe if this is how he intends to play. You can throw another £25m at that midfield/defence but you're still getting pumped 7-1 if that's how you set up. The best teams in the world go to Dortmund and don't try that * we did last night.

He's got Atalanta next. I expect a complete 180 on tactics for that game, if he doesn't I really would be planning for the next manager. We simply cannot spend another 12 years as group stage cannon-fodder, conceding knockout rounds before a ball is kicked because we won't sully ourselves by playing slightly conservatively.

It's genuinely baffling at this point that we identify as a club that completely rejects defensive football. It's a perfectly valid part of the game, for *'s sake.

 

The other thing I don't get is we play this superb attacking football in every game.

It would actually be nice, surely, to coach the team to play defensively for a change. A new challenge, let's work on tight spaces and counter attacks and see if we can get a result - basically do what teams try against us.

I know defensive football can be boring but I would * enjoy watching it for *checks notes* maybe 3 or 4 games of a 50 * game season.

 

I think 1 of their goals (the one where the shot nutmegs two players and nestles in the gap between Schmeichel and the post) involved a degree of luck and another (the one that deflects off Trusty right into the top corner from a ridiculous angle) was pure luck. A third was down to uncharacteristically bad goalkeeping from Schmeichel. Admittedly, the other 3 goals from open play and the penalties were just down to them being incredibly ruthless; but those 3 I mentioned first were pretty unlucky IMO. The xG would tend to support my view too.

That is not to argue that the game was closer than it looked, it wasn't. They definitely eased off and certainly had more gears to go through if they had needed them. My point is more subtle than that: we got a doing as can happen at this level. The scoreline makes it look like something special and different from other doings we've had; but I don't think it was. We shouldn't get too caught up in the scoreline.

I actually do think Rodgers screwed this up BTW, so I'm not trying to get him off the hook. I'm just not so sure that he screwed up in the way everyone thinks he did. I don't necessarily think we needed to change our system all that much.

I think playing Bernardo was a mistake on his part. I think our positional discipline was poor (especially Bernardo's), which is on him. Rodgers says he's asked McGregor to "follow the game" (and fair enough domestically); but should have asked him to just sit last night. He didn't get the players (especially Bernardo, Engels and Kuhn) mentally prepared for playing in what is probably the best atmosphere in Europe. He waited until half-time to sub Bernardo and Taylor (by which time, the game was long gone). He should have been braver in asking Maeda to stay up, as he was a bit of a liability so deep but caused them problems 1v1 with their fullback.

So there's lots I would criticise him for; but I still think we're on a really good road here and I want us to keep going.

 

For me, it doesn't even change my mind on that. I still think we have the ability to hurt teams like Dortmund offensively and to score against them. The problem is that when they score from every single mistake you make in the first 20 minutes, you can't help but stop taking risks and good attacking play requires risk. In some cases (Kuhn), you hide.

You can't have an effective attack when your defence is getting bent over. That's true even if your attacking players are pretty decent. I look at that team and think we need a CDM, a quick LB and a fit CCV. With those 3 things, it's a totally different game.

 

I still think it's more a collective thing tbh. Better players will give you better performances in general, but it's not the whole story. You just cannot play a high press and short passing out the back against top sides.

The tactics were wrong, the players' confidence was zero very early on and we had no chance of redeeming it. Swapping out a few players for better ones changes none of that.

Dortmund were in a different stratosphere in terms of pace, directness and being clinical, that to me can only be countered by either stifling them with tactics or fielding a team that is way out of our financial ball park.

I do think we'll get better joy against some of the other teams playing our game, assuming last night hasn't ripped our whole dressing room the shreds.

 

It's draining a result on the team and the support. In many ways, I saw this coming. I don't know how many times I've seen us go into Europe over-confident because we've thrashed a few farmers in our league. We didn't adequately address three key areas of the team over the summer (CDM, CB, LB) - it was only a matter of time until we got pumped again playing the way we do and with the level of player we have at our disposal.

We need to start recruiting much better and playing smarter and more pragmatically in these games. But we all know this won't happen. How many times do we have to suffer these types of defeats, only to come on here and say that we need to learn from it and prepare the team differently next time. It never happens, and that's because we have a board who will not reinvest enough genuine quality into the team, a manager who is reluctant to change his approach, a spine of good (but not great) players, with many of them already psychologically damaged and beaten before they step onto the park against the very best. That's without taking into account the * we face every week which leaves us criminally underprepared for Europe.

Until all of these issues get addressed, the same thing will continue happening for the foreseeable.

 

I'd say a complete defence as if we want to do better in Europe Scales should be 4th choice along with Johnston as backup.

I can't see us signing a DM unless we get lucky and find one who is also strong on the ball which unfortunately is out of our range normally.

Winger is a must. Kuhn has come on a fair bit but when you compare him to Jota it's not even close.

 

I wouldn't mind the scoreline as much if we looked dangerous throughout but we didn't at all.

 

For me, the Ross County game and Atalanta games are absolutely massive now.

County will show us where were at mentally, this is a side that lost 3 at home to St Johnstone, they are rotten, yet any away game after a defeat like that is likely to be a slog. I'm hoping for the opposite and a proper response to this, would go a long way domestically, and as daft as it sounds, Aberdeen will likely scud the diets so would hope we go into the break top.

Atalanta isn't a game we're expecting to win or draw, but he has to show adaptability in this game. They don't have the same pace up top as Dortmund they can hurt us just as easily, if we play the exact same way and get pumped again, I'll lose a lot of goodwill towards Rodgers that he's done so well to build back up.

Get the weekend out the way and re-group.

 

The naivety of the manager to think that he could set us up like that and it’d work is a bit troubling

I think we have the sorts of players that could really hurt a Dortmund, but not by playing the way we did

I just hope it’s finally the wake up call we’ve been waiting for him to have when it comes to this

 

In terms of points it doesn’t, in terms of confidence and us being able to trust our own qualities on the pitch at this level it does.

Atalanta are also currently scudding Shakhtar away from home, and away to them is another possibility of a doing, 2 doings in a row, our heads will be really down.

 

Well if it doesn't change anything, we've learned absolutely * all.
It HAS to change something.
We can't be judging ourselves against SPL dross.

I think long term, it can actually be a force for good, IF it highlights where we must improve and we have the ambition to improve - we certainly have the cash.

 

It’s not the cash that’s the problem there last night. It’s one of the best squads, most expensively assembled and well paid squads certainly, that I can remember. The approach was * awful.

 

Partially agree, tactics and performances were indeed shocking as we quite ludicrously tried to high press from 10 yards away.
But we do have some pretty glaring weaknesses in the team also that can and should be addressed by better, more ambitious recruitment.
LB, DM, CH, Winger to name but 4.
We've only really added Engels and Kasper as first team picks, whilst best player Oreilly left.
So to say its most expensively assembled squad is a bit of an over statement in my view, especially given funds we have and the fact we made a profit on transfers yet again.
Once we've spent more than we've earned for 3 windows in a row, then I'll.happily agree.

 

Cash means * all if you haven't got the right tactician. Not saying Rodgers isn't the right man, but he's certainly showed his dismal logic in Europe over the years.

Look at how much money Man U - for example - have spent over the years, and they are * CLUELESS. because they have a CLUELESS manager who has zero fight in his team and doesn't know how to set up against a press or high line opposition.

 

Nah, approach was awful but there are glaring issues in the squad that clearly need fixed.

LB, CDM (this especially) and CB are all areas where we should have been more prepared in. Valle could come good but he's a loan without an option and a project, we know Taylor isn't good enough for this level.

Obviously too early to judge Trusty but throwing him in to a game of such magnitude is the most Celtic thing ever. If he was our main CB target he should have been signed a lot earlier to help integrate him into the squad, having his second debut be at Borussia Dortmund screams "Ralston against PSG" vibes, something that shouldn't have happened again.

CDM is obvious, but I think at this point it's clearly not going to change whilst Rodgers is here, and that's fine if we change the approach, but having our midfield push up alongside Kyogo was suicidal.

You've then got the issue of bringing guys like Yang and Ralston on. Neither were bad last night but Yang isn't good enough domestically yet and Ralston isn't good enough to start on a regular basis either, having to bring them on shows a severe lack of options, especially with Yang.

Bernardo, Engels and Kuhn are players who have made great strides this season, and will continue to do so, but last night also showed they are all still projects who are steadily improving.

It's a reality check that this squad still has a long way to go, the Summer window was a step in the right direction but it was still a 6.5/10 at best, we should realistically be aiming for this January window to be the area where we fully step up.

 

CDM is part of the approach mate, don’t think it’s viewed as a position or option in the squad that’s needed. And it * is. LB I’ll agree on, but with Maeda infront of him, he was left 1 on 2 an insane amount of times. That’s approach, he has one of the hardest workers in world football ahead of him protecting him, but his starting point was so high up the pitch rather than tucking guys with pace and running power in them further back. Everything was isolated.

The approach is in general for me, and that includes targets we go for to sign, defending isn’t a thought for us in our approach. That’s stupid.