Brendan Rodgers Discussion Thread

You’re trying to put words in my mouth that I never said, because it helps the narrative you’re pushing. In fact, I clearly stated in another post how I think we’re probably set up to do well domestically this season, and I never once diminished the importance of that.


The football we’re playing in the league has no real bearing on how we’ll perform in Europe. The fact that some people think it does, is quite bizarre. Recent history shows us this very clearly. Even in terms of confidence, I don’t think it’s significant because being confident in a style of play that can put weak Scottish teams to the sword, is not the same as having confidence in a strategy to get results in Europe. It’s two very different challenges. (at least it should be if you’re an intelligent strategist)


When the fat Aussie was managing us, he would frequently state in interviews how simple and uncomplicated his style was… but most fans tend to ignore these statements, because it doesn’t fit with the vision they have in their head of playing some ultra sophisticated clever brand of football. (He’s still saying it at Spurs and still largely being ignored by their fans too lol) Rodgers is effectively sticking to that same blueprint… more or less.


It’s not highly sophisticated clever football, it’s just crazy gung-ho kevin Keegan style throw the kitchen sink at your opponent… that’s not intelligent. It may very well be fun and exciting at times, but there’s nothing complicated about it as a strategy.


I remember Klopp used to make similar statements in interviews. One particular time, I remember him saying (I’m paraphrasing) “I know it’s probably not the smartest way to play the game… but that’s how I like to play…” And he was laughing as he said it. He was also laughing at the notion that gegen pressing was some highly advanced idea. Even though it had been around for literally decades.


But again, most Liverpool fans ignored those statements and convinced themselves that they were playing some highly advanced… ultra modern… state-of-the-art… trailblazing… revolutionary style of play… lol


Even though the guy picking the actual tactics and style of play, was stating the complete opposite… right to their face!


Unfortunately, many football fans fall into this trap. They become slaves to some BS notion of a high level “football philosophy”… most fans are very easily fooled by bright shiny things and silly ideas.


Here’s the really bizarre thing about all of this garbage though…


The current champions of Europe - the mighty Real Madrid - are managed by a clever old Italian fox. This is a guy who is arguably the best coach to ever grace the competition. He usually manages the best teams, with the most talented players. And yet he is known for prioritising strong defensive organisation and intelligent counter attacking. His teams do not take crazy risks and leave huge gaps at the back… he is a cautious manager who understands how to get results at that level. His record stands as a testament to this fact.


We on the other hand, have nowhere near the same quality in our squad. Yet we play this crazy gung-ho style in Europe, packing our entire midfield with flair/attacking players (spfl standard ones btw) … cross our fingers and toes and hope for the best…


And many of our clueless fans like to pat each other on the back about how brave and courageous we are to be playing such a modern progressive style of play… lol


It’s garbage… there’s nothing brave or intelligent about our tactics in Europe. It’s bird brain football… that appeals to bird brain fans!


That’s why I was highly critical of the fat Aussie, back when he first went into Europe with this stupid strategy.


I said it at the time, and I will continue to say it… if we persist with such an unintelligent strategy/tactics at the highest level of football against the strongest teams in the world, we will continue to get poor results and ship lots of goals.


There won’t be any progress. And it won’t be “bad luck”… we will simply continue to be cannon fodder. And that is exactly what we will deserve!

 

Christ, stop beating around the bush and tell us what you really think eh?

 

"Fat aussie"

Sorry but only huns ever call him that. Get this * banned. He's a clear as day hun if I ever saw one.

 

Had to switch on ignored content briefly to see who this was aimed at but aye, roaster of a boy.

 

I think it's worth pointing out that the way we play - while unsuccessful in Europe - has also led to us being able to dominate domestically and showcase our attacking players to the point we've been able to smash transfer records several times.

I'm not saying that's a good reason to play open football in Europe but it is part of the puzzle. You can go fully defensive like the Huns and try to shithouse your way through Europe, but that's also the reason they can't turn it on domestically and can't sell any of their 'superstars', with the exception of Bassey who ended up being a massive regret for Ajax. I think we'd all agree we'd rather be us than them, right?

Also worth pointing out, the shithouse experiment also has a ceiling in Europe, as the Huns found out. Once they got into the big boy tournament we compete in, they found out their tactics are actually even worse than ours. Weren't they the worst ever Champions League team?

My takeaway is we need to be more pragmatic in Europe but I think we are heading that way. We saw last season we were pretty close but still need to further refine. The bigger problem for me is the ongoing depth problem in the squad and maybe the lack of a rock solid DM to let us spend some time defensive in European games when we need it.

 

Get this * banned ffs. Clear as day.

 

This mongrels definitely grieving..

 

Trying to comfort himself by hoping we get pumped in Europe because the huns title challenge is over at the start of September

 

I remember Ange (a man who I greatly admire and for whom I have a lot affection) explicitly mentioning having a way to play specifically for the CL that the team practiced in pre-season. So it's not like he just approached Real Madrid the same way he approached Hibs or something. I think some criticism is deserved for the Leipzig games, especially the times when we tried to press even though it was clear that they could play through that; but Jock Stein himself couldn't have got anything against Real Madrid, we got a draw at home to Shakhtar Donetsk (which is an acceptable result) and, whether you like it or not, we really were unlucky to only get a draw away to Shakhtar Donetsk.

Managing Celtic presents a unique problem simply because the jump from the SPL to the CL is so high. It's not an easy problem to solve. Play in the CL the way we do domestically and we will get bent over; play domestically the way we do in the CL and you risk dropping important points through not optimising your setup; have two totally different systems and you risk being good at neither. In practice, all our managers have to find some compromise when it comes to this. You might not like the compromise that Ange came to or that Rodgers comes to; but to some extent, we have to trust the manager. He's the one with the experience and the knowledge, who knows our players best and has all the data and reports on the opposition; whereas we're forming judgements based on a lot less information.

Not doubting for a moment that Ancelotti is one of the best managers in the world; but he can only play so flexibly because he has some of the most intelligent (in terms of football intelligence) players in the world. I highly doubt he would give our players the same tactical responsibility.

 

Glorious innit

 

Boys a throbber

 

We’re smashing transfer records mostly because of the vast wealth that’s coming into the game. Not because mid table epl clubs think we’re producing world beaters. There was plenty of interest in our best players, when we were more competitive in the CL.


There’s never any good reason for a club like ours - coming from a weaker league - to play crazy open football against the best teams in the world and leave ourselves exposed defensively against high quality teams. It’s always going to be a terrible strategy.


I mentioned Liverpool in my previous post. I actually think we’re MORE attacking than Klopp’s Liverpool sides - but with obviously far less talent. Which just seems completely bonkers to me. His teams did play some crazy football at times, and they had the talent to back it up. But if you look at the make up of his midfield, he usually always had at least 2 and sometimes 3 grafters in there who were good at the defensive side of the game and could win the ball back. Fabinho Henderson Milner wijnaldum etc… all streets ahead of anything we would have in our midfield for the defensive side of the game. We’re essentially asking a midfield full of spfl standard creative/flair players to defend well and protect our defence against the best teams in the world. It’s not surprising that we ship so many goals.


There’s a ceiling to bad unintelligent tactics and players that lack talent at important aspects of the game - be that attacking or defensive play. Effective tactics and players that are suited to those tactics is what’s needed.


We never backed up our UEFA cup final run in 2003, that doesn’t mean there was anything inherently wrong with how we got to that final. There can be lots of reasons why you don’t build on a good season. Recruitment is obviously a big one for us, and we didn’t strengthen that team at the right moment.


We’re going nowhere in Europe, with a brand of football that heavily prioritises attacking over defending properly. We were not close to achieving anything last year, it’s head in the sand stuff… just about as delusional as you can be. We were miles off being competitive. People seem to forget how important away results / performances are too… we were hopeless in our away games last year. Anyone who suggests otherwise, isn’t living in the real world.

 

Agree Anchellotti is a genius but absolutely can't agree ref style of play being reason for our poor European results.

We also lost by 5, 6 and 7 regularly way before the fat Aussie joined, as well as some truly humbling qualifiers.
Celtic had Real on the ropes for 60mins - it was fabulous to watch but only our lack of quality in final third prevented an historic win.

Bottom line, it's good players and performances that win games not systems.
Systems and tactics do help you get the most out of the players you have (a real strength of Ange, create very good teams with pretty limited players)
It's also critical to ensure any teams playing style matches well to their players strengths and avoids weaknesses (or vice versa) - Anchellotti is a genius at that.

Against the very best, the gap in player quality is ever expanding - so you need not only a great performance, but an off night from them and a wee bit of luck.
Against clubs our size, we just need the players and the performance within a style that suits them - but we simply haven't delivered recently.

This UCL group is the biggest opportunity in more than decade a to show progress as a team and in the competition.
I hope we can take it - it does feel like we are well set to do so, but let's see.

 

It's ok Patrick, you'll always have that 6-0 v Ross County, no-one can take that away.

 

I had some issues with Rodgers for majority of last season but weirdly felt he set us up as well as he could have done in Europe. It's not really a stick to beat him with imo...

 

Nope, can’t agree with you on that.

Intelligent systems / tactics are vitally important at that level. And we’re picking a terrible strategy for a club like ours, with our weak league and inferior quality players. We’re not giving ourselves the best chance of being competitive… we’re just making ourselves easier to play against and more likely to be whipping boys… this isn’t a brave strategy, it’s dumb!

Why would a team like ours, with inferior quality players, play a MORE attack minded system with MORE flair/creative players in our line-up, than the best team and best coach in Europe? Why would Ancelotti be MORE concerned with defending well in Europe, than the coach of Celtic… who are objectively speaking, one of the weakest teams in the tournament?

The best team and coach on the entire continent, shows MORE concern for defending well than a team that has finished rock bottom of their CL group on multiple occasions now - shipping large amounts of goals.

That makes literally zero sense to any person with a logical or rational brain… lol

 

I dont know what your moaning about didn't you lot have the worse team ever in the CL ?

 

Cannot believe this loser is still here babbling on paragraphs that no one will read.

 

While trying to play "practical" defensive football aswell...

 

I thought the 2-2 game with Atletico was as good if not better than anything we played under Ange.