Do you agree with the ban on new petrol and diesel cars from 2035?

The Daily Caller, check out the tees for sale



@BigManSmalls if you read it and quote it to back your opinion then.....

 

Fair enough I can see where you are coming from with that one.

My opinions are based on what I see to be true.

To me it's * clearly obvious that we are going down some expensive pointless paths in the name of controlling earth's climate especially with the EV mandates.

If I post something that is factually wrong or incorrect, it's fair game to point it out. But it honestly doesn't bother me where the truth is coming from. If it's relevant and true does it really matter?

But I do actually try to keep a decent standard for the sources I use but I admit I didn't really look into the daily caller, that's my bad.

But in regards to the content of the article from it here is a better source.

https://www.afr.com/companies/minin...e-amid-a-battery-metals-slump-20240109-p5evzc

"Last week, Core Lithium said it would close its Grants mine near Darwin, cutting 150 jobs. Two days later, it was the loss-making Savannah nickel mine, with 140 jobs gone. And the battery minerals sector could be on track for more mine closures as its quarterly reporting season gets under way – with several producers on track to report annual losses exceeding $100 million.

Weaker than expected growth in electric vehicle sales turned the battery metals boom to bust last year, and the collateral damage will likely emerge in 2024 in the form of job cuts across a sector that has suffered labour shortages for half a decade."

 

Seems like the issue with mines closing is due to the price fore these metals has crashed due to a surplus being created because the mining industry over estimated future ev demand, even though ev demand has been continuing to grow year on year. So over supply of demand made the mines non profitable, the resource is there to make ev the next generation of transport though, mining will resume once the surplus has been used and prices rise again

 

How long before we see another climate climbdown for the ridiculous EV mandates?

People do not want them and it's extremely unfair on manufactures to fine them £15k for every vehicle short of the unachievable target.

Most of the recent climate policies are nothing more than lip service. It has been clearly unworkable from the very start to anyone with a brain, but governments are more concerned about appearing 'green' that what is actually possible and what people want.


Desperate manufacturers are struggling to shift electric cars

By 2024, UBS confidently predicted in a October 2020 report, the cost of manufacturing an electric car would have fallen so sharply that it would be on a parity with the cost of a petrol or diesel car. If you have looked on Auto Trader recently you may well have been fooled into thinking that this has come true.

A quick search offered me a brand new Peugeot e-2008, its price slashed from £38,495 to £26,495. Or I could have a Vauxhall Mokka-e, down from £41,895 to £29,793. According to the car trading platform, 77 per cent of new electric cars on its website are being advertised at a discount – in some cases, as the above figures show, bringing them down close to the sort of price you would pay for a petrol or diesel equivalent.

Electric cars have established themselves as a premium project for well-off, environmentally-concerned motorists

But the discounts currently on offer are not really a reflection falling manufacturing prices. It is true that metals prices fell sharply last year – down 60 per cent on their late 2022 peak in the case of lithium batteries – reducing raw materials costs. But that shouldn’t be misread: lithium has now bottomed out and is still more expensive than it was in 2021.

The real reason for hefty discounts on electric cars is desperation. Since 1 January, manufacturers have been under the zero emissions mandate (ZEV), which demands that 22 per cent of the cars they sell in 2024 are pure electric cars. Should they fail to reach this target, they will be fined £15,000 for every vehicle by which they fall short.

How are they doing? Not very well, it seems. In the first three months of 2024, according to the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) electric cars accounted for only 15.5 per cent of the market – virtually unchanged from the same period in 2023. Moreover, the target is not going to stay at 22 per cent. In 2025 it will rise to 28 per cent, then in stages to 80 per cent by 2030 and 100 per cent by 2035. Unless electric car sales pick up dramatically in the next few months, manufacturers are going to find themselves with an enormous bill at the end of the year. The situation is worse for many carmakers than the above figures suggest because some carmakers, like Tesla, are already electric-only. That means that the sales being achieved by others must be well below 15 per cent.

It wasn’t supposed to turn out this way. Analysts were not expecting manufacturers to miss the 22 per cent target. Just last December, S&P forecast that sales of electric cars would surge by 41 per cent in Europe in 2024, and by 66 per cent in the US. In Europe, it was believed, EVs would be accounting for 22 per cent of the market across 2024.

Yet consumers are proving a lot more resistant to electric cars than the industry believed, with many citing the lack of charging points. Electric cars have established themselves as a premium project for well-off, environmentally-concerned motorists who enjoy access to off-street parking, but they are having serious problems widening their appeal to the mass market. There were recently reported to be 90,000 unsold EVs piling up in motor dealers’ forecourts in the US. Meanwhile, Chinese-made EVs are being diverted to Europe as tariffs of 27 per cent kept them out of the US. But the EU doesn’t want them either, and is also discussing punitive tariffs on Chinese-made cars – which isn’t exactly going to help Europe reach its decarbonisation targets.

For the moment, manufacturers are discounting the price of EVs, but in the coming months something is going to have to give. Either the government will relax the ZEV mandate as it has already relaxed other net zero targets – or manufacturers are going to find themselves in serious trouble.

 

It's not looking good for the electric car market at the moment.

The sale of brand new electric cars continues to fall rather than increase as previously forecast. Second hand values are dropping fast.

Manufacturers are delaying or pulling out of future plans.

Macklin Motors Nissan Glasgow are selling 2024 pre-registered Nissan Leaf with a list price of £33,600 for £18,800. That is a great deal for a car that is effectively new.

When the Vauxhall Corsa electric came out they were £34,000 new. A 3 year old car is under £10,000 now. Almost £670 per month depreciation on a Vauxhall Corsa!!!!

Vauxhall have lowered their list prices recently.

One of the previous reasons people weren't buying electric cars was cost. They were too expensive. Now they are coming down in cost sales continue to fall.

 

The Glasgow LEZ thing is a pile of *.

They can smoke my diesel banger. Diesel was all the rage not that long ago, all good and better for the environment, then the adblue farce.

Somebody is making a * load of money in all this, which triggers the cynical side of me.

That said, I do agree that we need to come up with something as it will eventually run out.

My brother in law bought an electric jaguar, 600 odd a month pcp, was meant to get the charger installed in his hoose as part of the deal, waited 3 months to get it installed, then they've * the tariff, so he gets charged night rate during the day and vice versa. Absolute load of * nonsense. I'd be taking the daft motor back and shoving the electric charger up their farters.

They need to get the finger out with the infrastructure, power stations etc. Feasibility for this to actually work.

 

I figured car sales in general would be falling. We'd considered replacing our car but it's just to expensive whether electric or not. We've got the highest joint income we've ever had but it doesn't feel like it.

 

How the * can they justify £34,000 on a Vauxhall Corsa?! Granted, I'm no a big car guy, but when I bought my golf, at the time you could've got a new gti for about that price.

A Corsa? * sake. Absolute robbery to demand that for a Corsa haha.

It's one area I just don't understand, in today's cost of living crisis, how cars are still being sold nae bother.

I'm only really able to have just bought my new house and have a relatively comfortable life because I have a 12 year old paid off car, and live frugally with * like that.

How people can spend 500-800 quid a month on a leased car is beyond me. Our wages in Scotland are pretty *.

Most folk are probably clearing 2k 2.5k a month.

Genuinely don't know how people are doing it.

 

Car sales are on the up, but nowhere near figures post CV19.

Plug in hybrids have seen the largest increase in sales, then hybrids and then petrol.

The depreciation figures on electric cars would scare me off. Unless there was a good lease or PCP deal where you know in advance of the costs. I wouldn't be buying one.

 

It's just daft that they let any old vehicle drive over the likes of the Kingston bridge for instance, the amount of pollution that goes back into the city centre from that whole area must be mental.

*sorry I tried to quote Onefootwonder from quoting my comment. Dunno what happened.

 

That's what electric cars used to cost. They are coming down now.

I doubt many people actually spent £34,000 on one. 85-90% of new private sales are on PCP deals. A lot of other electric cars are company cars or on salary sacrifice schemes.

Imagine buying a Corsa and losing £24,000 in depreciation in 3 years. That is mental. Unaffordable. The lease companies, finance companies and manufacturers have obviously stomached a lot of losses on these cars.

It will be bad, but it won't be as bad as people breathing in harmful fumes on the busiest streets.

People don't realise just how bad diesel emissions are.

 

It is * crazy to me. The whole idea of cars in general, I never used to understand it as a kid about the losing 20-30% of value when you buy a new car, driving it out the dealership.

I now do obviously which is why I won't buy a new car, unless my financial situation changes drastically. Why people buy cars which cost more than they earn in a year.

People who earn 40k a year with a £850 a month car on a 3 year deal. Bonkers.

I don't understand a lot though, any time I've been to Braehead or Silverburn it's absolutely packing, food court with mental queues. Houses still going way over home report, interest rates at 7% and 8% for a lot of people, price of food and groceries in general 25% higher.

Don't understand how it's all still spinning haha.

 

We have HGVs in our business and anything with AdBlue still qualifies to go into these areas no problem. We don’t actually drive in city centres but thought I’d check for a laugh.

Quite baffling really.

 

It's a myth that cars lose 20-30% Instantly. If it does you've picked the wrong car and paid too much.

Cars are some people's biggest interest. If they can afford it, what's the issue?

I do agree it's mental just how many people take out high interest loans to buy cars. They pull themselves into a difficult cycle.

Some people think it's bonkers that football fans spend every spare penny they have to follow their club all over Europe.

 

I wouldnt say its a myth. Litterly when you buy a car, type the reg into arnold Clark etc trade in and see what they offer you. Sure you can sell it private, but most folk need finance from the garage to buy one.

However I agree about if that's what they are into then why not. Folk spend money on a nice car or multiple nice holidays, or nice kitchens. All depends on what your into.

 

It is a myth.

If you buy a desirable car and pay a fair price you don't lose that much money. That has been more prevalent in recent years where people have bought cars prior to CV19 and got more money than they paid years later.

 

By and large they depreciate significantly upon purchase, just because they've now had 1 owner, second hand etc.

I don't have an issue, if cars float people's boat then great. It may just be people I know or know of who drive cars that they can't really afford.

Yeah I agree about the loan cycle, in the UK a lot of folk tend to just buy a new car or a different car when their deal is up, or a new phone when the phone deal is up, people just do it no questions asked type thing. But I suppose a lot of people are doing sim only deals now for 7 quid a month once they own the phone outright.

A lot of people are up to their eyeballs in debt, but I suppose we're not here got a long time.

 

I agree regarding cars loans. But it is a general issue regarding how people use credit and debt.

As I mentioned earlier, an EV through salary sacrifice is a very good deal and very different from traditional hire purchase set ups. The big question is how long the governments fund these schemes and what happens when they end.

 

I was saying this to my auntie yesterday, we were taught about the Pythagorus theorum in school, * all about money and credit cards and loans, interest etc.

I'm 34, so I was in school a long time ago, it may have changed now. But as a society we're taught so little, so unprepared for real life.

And it's frowned upon to talk about salaries, and what we earn. Absolute * madness to me, it should be the same with mental health, we should talk about it.

People don't talk about finances enough, keep it to themselves, struggle like *, take more credit card loans etc.

I'm certainly an open book about my money and experiences, I'll educate as many people as I can about mistakes I've made, lessons I've learned etc.