Liam Scales

Perhaps so.

Admittedly, he came onto a game diring the second half of last season at Aberdeen on the left side of a stable back 3, and took the unexpected opportunity when given it this season due to injuries, back in late August and the start of September. We all know it.

Whether through purely his own form or the fact that the other CB spot has been something of a revolving door with Lagerbielke, Phillips, CCV, Welsh and Nawrocki all being there aside him at one point or another - that is 5 different CB partners he has had, so it's not like it's been a super stable, both in terms of communication and nuances in style of play etc. Throw in a defensively and positionally questionable LB in Taylor, and Alistiar Johnston hardly having the same sort of impact as l;ast seaosn, oh... and Hart has not exactly been a completely reassuring presence behind the back four, then have to put Scales' efforts and performances into some mitigating perspective.

 

In fairness, there's a difference between asking him to be quicker and better when the ball at his feet and be a playmaker.

He's also regularly caught out of position. That's not a sole criticism of him. Taylor is also caught out of position a lot too. Which is why a lot of us want him replaced.

I think his story is excellent and he's got a part to play here but he shouldn't be first choice. It's the same with Ralston. People constantly ask for Ralston to start games. He starts them and then everyone understands why he's not starting games.

I also don't think he's there purely on merit, either. He's clearly there because Starfelt was sold, Lagerbielke was clearly the wrong sort of defender to sign because of our high line and Nawrocki, CCV and Welsh have been injured for large parts of the season.

Nawrocki and CCV will be the partnership by the end of the season, barring any injuries and we will be better at the back for it.

 

People do overlook his mistakes, even if you don’t. It isn’t nonsense.

 

I’d say that’s all very fair but it doesn’t absolve Scales of the errors he’s made individually.

 

Would like to see him at left back tucking in to make a 3 when in possession. He's a very useful squad member.

 

Carter Vickers and Van Dijk are two of our best centre halves of the last 10 or so years. Don’t think anyone really thinks Scales is as good as them.

Boyata at his best Id say was a better player than Scales has proven to b yet. He took an age to find any sort of consistency and had plenty of mistakes and nightmares in a Celtic shirt. I don’t think the gap between him and Scales is as big as you suggest tbh.

I think because Scales has come from Shamrock Rovers and subsequently loaned to Aberdeen that a section of our support have created a ceiling with him and are using any mistake he makes as validation for it.

If we paid big money for him from a better league and he’d proven himself a bit more, then people would be giving him more benefit.

The fact he’s 25, which is young for a centre half and working under Rodgers, someone known for developing players, makes me think he can only get better. I don’t understand the desperation for him to be dropped or replaced by you and others.

 

No arguing with that. It's not that I'm saying he walks on water or deserves total absolution, not in any way, shape or form. Just a degree of mitigation and perspective in the wider picture.

 

He can be quicker on the ball, absolutely but it’s something he has noticeably improved with since the start of the season. I was at the St.Johnstone game at the start of the season when we drew 0-0 and I was pulling my hair out watching Scales and even said he shouldn’t play for us again. He’s more than proved me wrong since, even with the odd mistake.

What do you mean by his “story is excellent”?

 

Scales will probably play every single game between now and the rest of the season and there will still be * saying “he’s not there on merit, he only played because…..”

 

A lad said Carter-Vickers and Scales were almost equals earlier.

I think if he was more expensive and from a fancier league then people would criticise his performances much faster. That he was a bargain at £600,000 goes in his favour as he has done a job for us. There’s always going to be a bit of a drop off from your first choice so I wouldn’t mind if he stayed around for another season as a back up.

At 25 most players are all the player they’re ever going to be but things can be fine tuned. If Rodgers gets more out of him then great.

 

Take your point about the bargain thing, different people will look at that in different ways but I just feel if he cost more money people would be quick to say “he’ll iron out the mistakes when he settles” and that sort of *.

As for the bottom bit, I think 25 is way short of a centre halves peak. Experience of a full season playing for us will improve him, there’s no doubt about that.

 

Probably directed at me as much as others so I'll answer this as to why I think he should be dropped.

Firstly, I'm not desperate to drop him. I * love his story and as I said in a previous reply, he's got a part to play in this team and this squad.

However, I think part of our problem as a team at the minute is our lack of intensity when we are on the ball. We are to slow at moving it forward and a huge part of that is because Scales takes far longer on the ball than others. That's not a criticism and I know he keeps the ball well and he's careful. That being said, from an attacking sense, a lot of the initial phases of our attacking play is started by the CBs. Scales is far too slow. CCV wasn't exactly lightening yesterday, either but he's been injured and has been making his way back. I think you could definitely see the difference when Nawrocki came on. He was far quicker than both CCV and Scales when distributing the ball from the back and it seemed to be forward more often that not.

I also think Scales gets caught out quite a bit. Had they scored from the corner in the first half that hit the bar, Hart would have clearly been at fault for flapping at it but Scales completely loses his man. He also got caught out at least 2 or 3 times out of position when Ross County were on the break.

I see some arguments that have been made in favour of Scales and I think they are all very fair arguments. Covering for inadequate LBs who get caught out of position, the number of times our CB partnership has changed with him beside it. All fair arguments and hold a lot of water.

He's another Ralston and Taylor for me. Absolutely needed in this squad and all of them will have parts to play within the squad but we need better. I know people want a defender to defend. They shouldn't all have to be prime Maldini with the ball at their feet but the simple fact is, we need quick distribution from the back to maintain a decent level of intensity in our attacking play. When that's slow, it has an effect overall in how we go about our games. It's the same argument people make for goalkeepers. The 'who gives a * if he can't pass 5 yards, can he make saves' argument doesn't hold much water if your asking your goalkeeper to make saves from their own mistakes when the ball is at their feet. 'Just hoof it up the park then'... that's fine so let's drop Kyogo because there is no point in playing him in games if that's how we are going to start playing.

I know people think it's as simple as defenders defend and goalkeepers make saves but it's not. When you're an attacking team, with lots of the ball and you're dominating games you need to see intensity and I think Scales lacks that when the ball is at this feet.

 

So many problems all over the pitch and it's Scales that people are hyper-fixating on. Nawrocki is coming back from a serious injury, not to mention CCV is back from an injury as well, and it's clear Lagerbielke isn't in contention to start.

GK, LB, RB, LW, RW, CDM and ST are all problem positions before we even get to Scales. That's not me saying we drop Kyogo or even A Johnston, but these areas have caused us far, far bigger issues than CB has this season.

Rotate him with Nawrocki? Completely fine, and I think we will do that as the season progresses, but there's literally 0 reason to fully drop him until Nawrocki starts showing why he's better.

 

Let's cut the *. If he wasn't an Irish lad, this conversation wouldn't be happening. We've had better centre-halves that we didn't afford the same praise. Starfelt, for example, we gave him a hard time because of his shortcomings and he was a better player than Scales.

I'm not saying write the boy off, as someone else said CBs peak in their late 20s. But he's not on the level of CCV or our other best players and probably isn't going to be. Any pretence otherwise is wishful thinking. I want to see Scottish and Irish lads do well and I'm glad he's in the squad, but he's never a long-term starter in that position.

 

What's him being Irish got to do with the price of cabbages?

 

Bit sarcastic, yes - I can do ironic, sarcastic expression in person but it's COMPLETELY lost in writing, but ultimately a great player who isn't playing isn't worth much either... I was quite clear CCV is the better player, I'm also quite happy the Scales CONTRIBUTION has been near to equivalent. Had CCV played more, it'd be no contest... I think some people are mistaking the subtlety of both positions in their rush to defend their original positions/opinions...

My metric for any player is what they contribute to the team. Our history has been littered with amazing talent who have backstabber and unsettled throughout their time. Others have been lesser players who've risen to good/epic status by effort and force of will. They're all remembered fondly and ruefully for those reasons... Other great players, on other teams don't concern me worth *, unless they played against us

 

Obviously we like to see a lad from an Irish or Scottish background break into the team and do well, so we're always going to be behind them more than a youngster from elsewhere. It goes without say, come on.

 

Nonsense. Couldn't give a * where a player is From. You're saying some of us only rate him because he's Irish? Some of us rate him because he's stepped in and been one of our standout players all season. If anything I think there's a snobbery because he's come from the LOI.

Remember the Lazio game at home, the same few that are always having a pop at him because he misplaced two passes I think, I put up his stats for that game, he was head and shoulders above anyone on the pitch.

As for getting an easy ride because he's Irish, there's been plenty of Irish players Duffy, Hayes, Cascarino, Flood that weren't given any special treatment and rightly so.

Only Irish player I ever remember getting special treatment was Paddy McCourt for obvious reasons

 

And anyone saying Rocki is better and deserves to play instead of Scales hes done absolutely * all in the hoops and most Celtic fans probably never heard or seen him play before he signed for us.. laughable

 

Lastly..

Can we do better than Scales? Absolutely
Can Rocki displace him, yes but he will have to earn it.

I just find the stick he gets from a certain few is pathetic. Some people actually singling him out from the absolute * shiteshow yesterday says it all for me, especially with the absolute dross he's had to cover for and help all season at left back