Rocco Vata

That 18 year old deemed not good enough for the first team squad now all these months later deemed good enough. Aye sounds like us

 

So whondeemwd him not good enough in the first place?
Who bombed him out of training with the first team? Who made that call?

Who's now making the call to include him?

Who refused to offer better negotiations all this time, but now has decided to?

We are all over the place with the youth, this kid specially.

But the sudden flip flopping needs questioned for sure.


I tell you what this screams of though, meddling from above and a sudden realisation we aren't doing much this window so they better tie down some other contracts as a sign of positivity.


For the record, I'd want the kid to always have stayed and been given a fair chance. Like most of the youth.

But this nonsense is just that, nonsense, from the club.

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The way our club is run in a nutshell.

Clueless.

 

Looking forward to seeing this lad becoming a £5M+ player in a couple of years like Ferguson, Doig and we are talking on this forum about buying him!

What is it about Scottish teams not recognising and nurturing our own talent? John McGinn, Paul Lambert, Andy Robertson, Snodgrass etc

 

Does everyone forget that we did offer him a new contract and he rejected it. People are making it sound like we haven't bothered our * until yesterday. The rewriting if history in here is heading towards hun level of stupidity.

I would prefer him to stay but the opportunities from B team to first team are limited due to the 5 game rule, we need to get those rules changed or leave that league, seems to be a hinderance more than anything now. I'd expect first team opportunities to be rare so needs a loan if he stays

 

Is he any better than Karamoko the hype around both have been unreal and he’s on loan at Blackpool and found his level. If vata was as good as everyone is making out he’d be in the team. Looked ok in a few games nothing spectacular and terrible attitude by all accounts wants first team football train hard prove you deserve to be in the team and go from there.

 

We have to provide ways for these guys to improve. We can't expect them to improve in the lowland league. Our youth will see the club signing duds like Kwon and Tilio who move Infront of them and don't really warrant it and it will destroy their moral.

If you want a career in football don't hang around Celtic as a youth. All of them should look elsewhere.

 

Even if he signs a new deal we've essentially wasted 6 months of his development

 

The issues are though, they don't get that chance in the first team.
In turn we don't nurture or develop the talent.

Of course the majority of talent in any youth setup will be poor and let go, that's the nature of football.

We've arguably 2million kids in Scotland, a million of them will want to be a footballer at some point. 500k will play during their teens, about 500 of them may actually make it at a club in the top two leagues in Scotland. About 50 of them will make it professional at some level, about 5 or them will earn a life changing sum of money and of those 5, about 1 a year will end up actually impressing to the stage of being deemed a great talent.

But none of that should mean we just give up on a 17 or 18 year old because there was a buzz about them and their first 2 games didn't light up the world.
You have to nurture that talent and give it space to grow.
We don't.
Hence a lot now leave us. Of course they may not get anywhere anyway, but we aren't giving them that chance either way.

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He could have trained with the first team most of the season though. There were plenty of occasions this season were having Vata on the beach would have been a positive. Sure you've got to manage when you use him as you state, but just refusing to do that is stupid and most frustratingly spiteful.

 

Never heard the bit about attitude before. Is that common knowledge or just a rumour.

 

I think a rumour, but the one thing I’ve seen constantly mentioned is that he and his family (mainly his Dad) believe he should already be getting first team minutes (and apparently have for a long time).

Whether or not he’s good enough, I don’t know.. but I don’t think either party have dealt with this well. We probably should’ve gave him more opportunities last season under Ange, but he has apparently been looking for a way out for a long time now.

Hopefully can be resolved, he extends and takes a place in the squad as third choice striker and winger.

 

We already have a bloated first team squad for training purposes. Including a young kid who had already made clear he had no interest in being around after the end of this season would be nonsensical.

If his situation has been mismanaged (which I agree it has) then this one really is on his family and representatives, not the club.

 

So why add him now?

 

Is that an unreasonable position for someone supporting an individual. It's not miles off is it?

It's likely he can go somewhere else and get first team minutes, including Serie A, so it's not ridiculous. He's had first team minutes and was fine to good when he got them I'd say.

Current situation indicates 2 things:
- he's been kept as backup for us not getting our loan striker
- Vata has likely been told he's not getting sold this window because of the above

This is much more about managing us having a * window than us managing an individual I'd say.

Also, if he is going to be 3rd choice being involved before now would have been beneficial.

 

We will never know. Maybe he’s realised if he moves he’s not guaranteed first team football with any of his suitors.
I totally agree with the comment above regarding his family and representatives making an * of it, 100%. The club get battered for every decision made, but on this occasion they, BR, made the correct decision to exclude him. He didn’t want to sign a deal, fair enough but including him in training would mean another promising youth, that is under contract, would not be training with the first team.
There’s a layout in here to get a ‘pathway to the first team’ obviously we are all in agreement with that however, those that have left in the last few years to get that from other clubs aren’t exactly doing well are they, except Doak and he wanted away. Maybe we don’t have youngsters that are that good, maybe they are just bang average players.

 

other young talents do get games from time to time it’s all about attitude and commitment from them. Hard juggling act on the manager aswell as the emphasis is on us to win every game and harder to breed youngsters.

but instead of singing tillo and kwon i would bring through 2 of the youth instead or loan them out in the SPL see if we can use that more to our benefit

 

I don't think enough young talent at all comes through our ranks. It's forced with injuries at best that they get a chance (see Welsh and Tierney of recent).

It is a juggling act though, think we all agree there and the pressure to win win win is very high at our club, which is why we will all agree on your final point as well. Rather see Vata get a chance than having signed Tilio and Yang.

Palma, Maeda, Abada, Forrest should have been the four main wide players. Youth such as Vata making up the next numbers.

If Forrest of Maeda aren't good enough, they need replaced with adequate quality. Not paid a wage while we waste more on Tilio and Yang in the hope someone comes good.



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From what little I saw of Vata end of last season he looked like he'd have improved our squad and bench options last few months. No sign that leaving him out made a space for any other youth from what I can tell.

Have you particular insight into how his representatives acted? As it just all sounds like hearsay to me. Not really buying it's anything out of the ordinary. These situations need managed regardless. Only real attitude I'd care about is if Vata was a * in and around training and/or lazy. If that's the case he should be sold this window not brought into the squad. But the opposite is happening which tells it's own tale.

 

Again we have no idea mate. We just have to trust in BR to do the correct thing for Celtic, regardless of what we think about Vata et al.