Do you agree with the ban on new petrol and diesel cars from 2035?

All I can tell you is my own experience. I have Mustang Mach E and the warranty on the battery is 8 years or 160,000 Km whichever comes first. So as far as I am concerned that covers the battery for me. Reality is in a regular ICE there is going to be a degrading of the vehicle after it has been driven for 8 years or 160,000 Km so of course there would be likewise with an EV's battery. However what I saw when I did my research before buying was the expectation with EV's on battery life has advanced enough now that an EV should be able to get to around 300,000 Km before the battery needs replacing and reality for me and I would think the significant majority of drivers is they would be looking to trade in long before they drove that amount. As for insurance well if the battery fails thats what the warranty is for so I fail to see the issue there.

 

I would say people either being * or ignorant. I have my brights set on automatic and I leave it like that so they automatically dim at the sight of any other cars. If someones car does not have auto dimmers for their brights then there is no need to use the brights most of the time and you should be doing it manually.

 

It is the owners further down the line that will face the issues. Modern batteries should last well, but too many people won't take care of the battery. They'll rapid charge it all the time, charge to 100%, and keep topping it up. Driving the car hard also zaps the battery.

Most manufacturers are only promising 70% capacity after 8 years. Range anxiety is already without losing so much of the capacity.

The warranty for batteries has lots of terms and conditions. A lot of owners aren't going to keep to the terms and lose the warranty.

Audi's terms for buying a second hand ev from them is not to expect the range or the acceleration performance of the car to be near new levels.

If your VW has a battery issue within the first 3 years they only promise managing to repair the battery to 78% health. I can't understand that a fault on a newish car within the manufacturer's warranty, and not the extended battery warranty, can be returned with such a level of degradation.

The 8 year/100,000 mile warranties sound like good peace of mind, but there is too many conditions to some of the warranties that don't read well.

 

If you mean by driving hard driving fast then yes the faster you drive the car the lower your range. Not really different to an ICE the faster you drive the more petrol you use. As for second hand owners well thats no different to buying a second hand car in general. You need to be careful about who and where you buy. Here in the US if your in the market for a second hand car you need to go the certified route no different with an EV. Otherwise your taking a risk.

I get the term range anxiety its out there. But to me again its no different to an ICE. How much do I have in the tank.? Not enough ok fill it up. How much range do I have on my EV not enough ok charge it. Its a persons own fault if they don't pay attention to their range while driving just as it would be with running out of petrol.

A lot of terms and conditions on the warranty. Such as? I have no issue with mine. I bring it in for a check up at the dealership and we are all set. In fact I am going in on Monday. I agree with you on VW. I looked seriously at the ID4 but concluded the warranty and range was not good enough so eliminated them from consideration.

 

If you drive an EV hard and discharge the battery fast is has a negative affect on the long-term battery life.

On the warranty side water ingress and battery inspections will be two of the main ones, but there a few other caveats. There is specific warnings about the usage of power washers. A lot of people don't use main dealers for services once a car is a few years old. Battery inspections and the unauthorized garage rules look an easy get out. They already do that with corrosion claims.

Range anxiety is a real thing. It's easy to stop off at a petrol station and fill up with petrol. It isn't so easy in the UK with an EV. In the winter ranges are affected significantly and with lots of people travelling we had real issues. There was queues for hours to access a charger on main routes. The infrastructure here isn't anywhere near good enough at the moment.

As a car gets older and the range drops issues will get worse. It will be harder to maintain a battery and not keep fully charging it.

A lot of people don't have the money to buy cars from main dealers at main dealer prices.

 

So an EV won't ever have that problem my phone gets?

Aw sweet 20% left thatll last me until I'm home in 30mins to charge... yet dump the entire percentage in front of me to 1% and switch off... so now I know 20% is actually basically zero now. Aye its an old * battery problem but does that mean the range will catch us out more than an old petrol ever would?

 

Exactly that! I think range anxiety exists more in the minds off those who haven't taken the EV route than those that already have.
in everyday use, you soon gauge the expected usage of your vehicle, and as you say, its no different from knowing how much petrol you have in the tank.
Im blessed ! I have a Porsche Taycan 4S, with the performance battery plus! which I didn't pay for as it was specked by the previous owner , so, at the recommended 85% charge, I get 210 miles, Ive already fully charged it for a drive from Belfast to Donegal and made the return journey without recharging, It read at 235 miles, but there is a "range module" on the satnav that calculates the journey and adjusts for everything from hills to speed limits and traffic lights, last year, I would have topped up with petrol! just in case, if the car had of hit 10%, I would have stopped somewhere to charge, but I got home at 7% and able to charge up again at the lower EV overnight rate.

 

Yeah but your whole argument is based on being the first owner if that particular vehicle. I'm trying to understand the full cycle from showroom to scrap yard.

8 years then a new battery (outwith warranty) is mental when you consider a battery for the Tesla S is £9k parts only. An 8 year old model S costs £27k on average (quick glance at auto trader) which is funny only because in my previous post I made a guess about a new battery being a third of the cost of the vehicle was right in this instance.

So it's currently looking like if you can afford an EV on PCP or lease then go for it. If not, stay with ICE as general maintenance costs (for a car that age) are highly likely to be less than a new batter for an EV by the looks of it.

Again as I say, Im still a sceptic.

 

Still not quite sure what you mean by drive an EV hard. If your talking about DC fast charging you do have to be careful there if you use them a lot.

Personally always wash my car at home. Don't trust car washes to not scratch my car like they did the last time I brought my old ICE car there. No question your right car companies look for easy outs on warranty issues but that applies equally to ICE cars every bit as much as an EV. Which is why I am making a point of using the dealership for my EV.

Obviously I am driving my Mustang here in the US so I cannot compare it to how it is in the UK but I get it there are range anxiety issues for some people and no question there is massive infrastructure work that needs to be done in terms of an EV network around countries. Also no question my range goes down in winter as the heating does eat up the battery more so then in the summer. No question. A tip to help with that is use the heated steering wheel and seats that helps if you have them. For me though I have no range anxiety as I know how far I am going and charge at home appropriately and if my journey there and back will take me longer then the cars max range the car tells me where I can charge it along the way if I need that. So personally not an issue for me although obviously I have no idea what its like in the UK.

As for as the car gets older absolutely wear and tear on an ICE engine as on an EV battery is just reality and thats when I look to trade in and buy new.

 

Not an issue for me no. The car lets me know exactly where I am at range wise and if I need to charge where I can do that.

 

So in 6 years time when some poor we pleb like me who can't afford new won't have that issue?

 

Totally agree. I think people who actually own EV's don't have range anxiety that as you say its a non EV owner thing for the most part. I mean all I can say for myself is its just the same as putting petrol in the tank. I know how far I need to go and charge it appropriately just like I would fill up the tank in an ICE car but if my journey there and back will be longer then my max range the car shows me where I can charge along the way no big deal.

 

No question I have never bought a second hand EV never bought a second hand ICE car either. Each to there own. Actually maintenance costs are another advantage to an EV though. There is so much less to maintain on an EV then an ICE car over its life time. Plus again for me once I get closer to that 160,000 KM mark or 8 years which ever is first I will just sell the EV and get a new one. Currently loving the Mustang so would happily buy another one and do doubt by the time I would be in line for that battery technology will be even better then it is now.

 

I cannot speak to the second hand market other than in the US but here in the US no you would not have an issue as long as you buy second hand certified. If you buy second hand non certified then your taking a risk but again that would apply equally to ICE cars just as EV cars.

 

Aye so I'll be * n stranded

 

I'll keep my fingers crossed that it will all work out for you

 

If you drive an EV fast and accelerate quickly draining the battery faster, this increases long-term battery degradation.

It's not drive through car washes the terms refer to. It's a power washer that many people use to clean their cars at home.

The terms of the EV battery warranties have more terms than you'll see on a ICE warranty.

 

The same conversation comes up over here all the time. We call certified cars approved used.

Buying an approved used car from a main dealer doesn't mean you are buying a better quality car. Lots of cars sold by main dealers fall short of the standards they pretend they follow.

The example Honda gave above is when the cars get older and come down in value. I don't think main dealers are going to be selling many 6 year old EVs. Some are reluctant to take them as trade ins now.

Auto Trader is our main car selling website here. For cars up to 2017 there is a grand total of 6 EVs being sold as approved used. It's less than 1% of EVs for sale on the site up to 2017.

Going to 2019 there is only 76 cars being sold as approved used. That's 5% of cars being sold.

Once EVs fall into the budget of a lot of people they will not have the option of buying certified or approved used as they won't be selling them.

 

Yes you are correct you use up more range the faster you drive the car. Same as an ICE car if you drive it really aggressive you will degrade the car quicker.
Got it on the car wash. No power washer used by me. As for warranty issues. I hear you but don't agree in the sense that car companies are very commonly looking for any loophole to get out of honouring warranty's its not an issue that applies only to EV's it's an issue for ICE cars as well. It's why I am being so picky about taking my Mustang into the dealership so as to make sure it is taken care of as Ford specifies for their EV's.

 

Yes that sounds like approved is the equivalent of certified here. If you buy a used car your always taking a bigger risk then buying new but by buying certified your buying a used car that has been inspected and reconditioned by the dealer or the manufacturer. Still a risk yes but less so.
As for buying older cars well yes naturally they all go down in value as they get older be they EV or ICE the value gets lower as the Km's drives and years increase.
Do EV's lose their value quicker then ICE cars absolutely currently they do. However EV's have much less in the way of parts to maintain so typically they can last longer so there is a trade off there and over time battery technology continues to improve so that will only help EV's value and their ability to be driven longer. Certainly there are going to be less EV's for sale now as they still make up only a tiny proportion of car sales as we speak. In the US EV's made up about 8% of car sales in the last quarter and that was a record. Also given EV's have not been mainstream so to speak in terms of car sales for very long there are naturally not that many older ones available for sale.