Champions League Atlético V Celtic Tuesday November 7th kick off 8PM TNT sports 1

Where that is grim reading indeed, look across the group tables in the CL this season and you can quickly see a pattern emerging.

Of all the teams playing in the competition from outside the big leagues which there are 13 clubs, there have only been 10 wins in the competition from 39 games.

Six of those have come where the teams have been playing fellow teams from outside the top 5 leagues and Porto have 3 of them against Shakhtar and Antwerp x 2.

The four wins against top league opposition include:
- Feyenoord beating Lazio
- Galatasaray beating Man Utd
- Braga beating Union Berlin who although a top league representative are a surprise package to be in there and pot 4 team.
- Shakhtar beating Barcelona.

The other wins have been
- Shakhtar beating Antwerp
- Feyenoord beating us
- Salzburg beating Benfica
- and Porto’s three wins.

Only 2 pot 4 teams have won a game each. Saudi backed Newcastle and Lens.

So why quote all this, basically in recent seasons the low number of wins in the competition for pot 4 teams, particularly ones outside the rich leagues is the norm not the exception.

I would argue there has only been three genuine upsets in all the games played by teams outside top leagues. Red Bull talent factory Salzburg beating Benfica, Shakhtar beating Barcelona, and state backed Galatasaray beating basket case Man Utd.

Now getting beaten 6-0 is never acceptable and never will be. It is embarrassing but overall the defeats are what have become the norm. Looking back over the last 4 years Brugge last year look like the only pot 4 team outside the top 5 leagues to qualify in 4 seasons, so 1 in 32 and it looks highly unlikely any will this year.

I would say what has happened to us is like many other once big clubs we have been left behind by the bigger leagues, financially and deprived of talent by their models of hoovering up young players who would have come to clubs like us first to develop.

I totally agree we need to do more as a club and there is plenty more we can do but realistically we are up against it in this competition. The footballing system is geared towards keeping the big boys at the top.

Even the way they do ranking payments for coefficient, surely every team who has qualified for the group should just get the same payment out plus the TV deal money? All 32 teams that qualify have achieved the same by getting there so why should we get a fraction of what the higher ranked clubs get? It is all designed to shut down competition.

 

The thing is mate.. it happens to Barca once in a decade. It happens to us once a CL campaign.

We leak goals. It has to stop, we need to become tough to beat again. And to show some character and fight.

 

I don't need to have seen it. They won. That is all that counts. We got hammered. That is all that counts. Las Palmas showed what an inferior group of players can do when you get your game-plan right. If they are capable then why aren't we? That is not only a serious argument but common-sense I would have thought.

 

Lol you never seen it but expect anyone to take your opinion serious. I called it earlier. Half the * who complain don't even watch the games

 

The sad reality is that we’re not going to be tougher to beat unless we use a defensive system and buy players to suit that playing style.

We buy the best technical players that we can get our hands on in the spfl, but they’re not good enough to dictate games at CL level like they do in Scotland…

So we’re between a rock and a hard place really. If you want the fancy technical football in the league, there will be a price to pay in Europe where we’ll get outplayed by technically superior teams and our players don’t have the physical or defensive attributes to counter this like previous Celtic teams might have.

 

You’re completely right.

In the past, Celtic teams would have gone there with a game plan and players who could put a shift in off the ball.

Rodgers is pretty poor at this from what I’ve seen of him tactically over the years, he just doesn’t seem to grasp how to set a team up to be compact and organised defensively. Added to the fact that we didn’t sign any players in the summer who excel at that side of the game either, so we were always going to be a soft touch at this level.

 

If we want to atleast make things difficult for opponents in the CL away from home we need to be more pragmatic and yes defensive.
By all means be gung ho at home (considering the opposition) but away to teams like atletico and even lesser teams I want us set up to frustrate the home team and maybe push forward more the later the games goes on instead of being out of the tie inside the first 20mins all the time.

 

But they didn't show that at all. You can't infer that from a single data point. We have no idea what lies behind that single result. You have no more idea than I do how "right" their game plan was. You don't know why they won that game any more than the next person. You have no more idea than anyone else how good or not they actually are. You have no more idea than I do how their model differs from ours. You have no more idea than I do what opportunities and constraints lie behind their model that don't apply to us.

Look, if you want to make a case for Las Palmas' model, then put the work in and make a case. I'll read it. Right now, your argument just isn't worth taking seriously.

 

Now the dust has settled, it's thoroughly depressing how far we are away from being competitive in Europe..

 

Why play two advanced midfielders? Why not go with Iwata alongside Mcgregor?

Why did Bernardo start? Look at his positioning for the first goal.. who is picking up griezmann? CM? PB?

I dont understand Rodgers. I dont know what sign he needs to play more compact and cautious. His overall CL record isnt great, slightly better at his time at Liverpool.

 

I've lost count of how many times I've seen these hidings under 4 different managers over the past decade. It's not the manager. We don't have good enough players.

 

Its easier when you just accept we are utter * in Europe,either CL or EL.....Wouldnt even suprise me if we shat the bed in the Conferance League as well.

We are always setup wrong,start poorly in nearly every single game and have players that do rash tackles or fluff their shots,the few that you actually get in European Football.

We have poor goalkeepers that cant come for simple cross balls,defensive players that are mostly clueless and run around like headless chickens. A midfield that can barely hold or pass the ball effectively and Strikers that when they dont have the ball and we are under pressure cannot hold the ball up at all because they are far too lightweight.

The quicker we get put out of competitions the better we are a * embarassment and most of this is down to stupid tactics on the night and the * Tory Hun loving board that just will not invest at all and have zero * ambition.

We could have jumped forward light years in 2003-04 after Seville......We stayed still and shat the bed.

In 2012 we could have also buried those * mutants for life....We didnt due to a board again that did not have ambition to do this,and the huns came back from the dead....because the board wanted this.

Ange probably * off seeing the writing on the wall with our lack of ambition from the top....Rodgers will do so again if this continues.

We fight all year to finish 1st and get CL football.....to then * it up year after year.

Sick to * death of the lot of it...The board need to go.

 

We are simply not CL team, it’s a double edged sword going straight into the group stages, we are always destined for embarrassing results.

 

We are seeing no progression at the club and no plan and we sell Tierney for 25 million and buy Taylor for 2 million and we sell Jota for 25 million and buy Palmer for 3.5 million.
We really need to be bringing in 6 or 7 million pound players if we are selling players for 25 million.
As I said in a earlier thread we are bringing in 2 million pound players this season and we were doing this 10 years ago so we are not improving at all and bringing in same standard players at best and we have been a failure in Europe for 20 years since the Seville final and we are not improving at all and we are going backwards.

 

We are better than 1 point with a -9 goal difference. We need to become tough to beat again.

We should always look to gain points at home. In our fans and atmosphere we have an advantage that not a lot of teams have.

 

The home results are generally acceptable, the problem is our away form in Europe is pathetic and has been for many years, the cold truth is we are simply not good enough to make an impression in the CL and have been for many years, the club may make a significant amount of money out of the CL but it is not doing the credibility of the club any good and it may well put off potential transfer targets from coming to the club?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Kružliak

Ivan Kružliak Wikipedia page says "Spanishfootball refereeon the payroll of Atletico Madrid. He refereed at 2012–13 UEFA Europa League.[2] He also refereed in the Wembley 2014 FIFA World Cup Qualifier between England and Moldova. The game was a 4-0 victory for the home side."

 

You are correct, its the same principle that applied when we beat Barca a couple of times, Mau U that time etc

 

'generally acceptable' = last home CL win in 2013?

 

Spot on. I have read on here - literally - hundreds and hundreds of times over many years comments like 'the board have to do something', 'this time the board must act', ''board got to support the manager', or variations of those. When, EVER has the board actually delivered in the next window since DD and Liewell have been at the club??? Never, because they don't have to, as altho many Celtic fans will moan about how * the team is, when it comes to season ticket time they all get back in line and pay their money........