Celtic Supporters Thread (contains GB chat)

They didn't have to do that at all, nor should they be forced to.

 

That's true; but, I think their choice not to clarify the banner made it more difficult to get behind them, at least initially.

 

They didn't have to mate and you're right they had no obligation to explain.

It looked terrible though.

It's far too late to distance themselves from it though so who cares.

 

I think the whole way I look at this is if you (not YOU, but ye ken ma meaning) look at a flag/banner in outrage whilst there are FAR more important world issues out there, then you're just looking for outrage.

As you quite rightly say, who cares!

 

Again, victory to the resistance indeed!

 

The resistance at the time was gunning down civilians in cold blood.

If they held that banner until one more game it would have been much better received mate.

Doesn't matter though, they have been proved right. The rest of the world have finally caught up and once again the Celtic support are leaders in highlighting injustice.

 

I agree that they didn't have to do it mate. But I also don't want them banned, or making us look bad... People don't look at them and just see a section of our support. They see it as our support. And I know we can go back and forth with all the who cares and whatever but I'm just giving my opinion.

Free Palestine. * HAMAS

 

Flags are symbols. Nothing more.

If you fly a flag that is intrinsically linked with an organisation who have just butchered innocent civilians - literally hours after the act - then you can expect people to make the link. Particularly when it’s done alongside the ‘victory to the resistance’ phrase, and any opportunity to distance themselves from support of that act/group is ignored.

It would be no different to a group of supporters choosing to wave the flag of Israel the day after the hospital bombing. Worse in fact, given there is absolutely no doubt who was responsible for the Hamas attack. Nobody here would buy that the group of fans waving that flag were doing so merely to raise awareness for anti-semitism worldwide, for instance, and rightfully so.

It was a really, really poorly thought out idea.

The optics have obviously changed now, and I would happily bring a Palestinian flag to Celtic Park to show that I’m completely against the current bombing campaign, but I don’t want it to be in any way associated with support for the GB’s choice of actions.

 

Sorry to butcher your post mate.

Can you explain what flag the GB flew that was "intrinsically linked" to the 'Victory the the Resistance' banner?

 

All good mate.

Basically I believe that when you choose to fly a Palestinian flag less than 24 hours after Hamas committed that atrocity, you can’t complain when people assume that it’s in support of that act, or at least the group that committed that act. It blurs the line between the people of Palestine and Hamas, at a time when distinction is needed.

I think that it’s understandable that people would expect some clarification, and telling that none was given.

I would see it the same way if someone was waving an Israel flag after the hospital bombing, and no excuse of “I was actually just showing support to the people of Israel, and wasn’t waving an IDF flag” etc would wash with me

 

I'm not not sorry for butchering this post.

Utter pish.

Equating that banner with the flag of Palestine is disengenuous to say the least and I'm surprised at you.

 

Utter garbage.

 

I guess by now you've realised that people wanted clarification for the banner not the Palestinian flag, so I'll just make a point about what you said about flying the Israeli flag. The fertile ground that makes the people of Palestine vulnerable to something like HAMAS* has been decades of suffering and the fact that no one else has been there to protect them. What these people have suffered has run from original ethnic cleansing in what is now Israel (there are whole generations of families still in refugee communities many decades later) to settler colonialism and apartheid in the West Bank and something even worse in Gaza.

It's hard to know how to describe Gaza, but most people start by calling it a giant prison and move on to talk about the blockade and things like de-development. It took less than a week for the IDF to kill more Palestinian civilians than the number of Israeli civilians killed in the Hamas terror attack and it's now running at several times that number (which was already entirely predictable that very weekend, several on here actually predicted it).

To get an impression of just how long these people have been suffering, think about this: when the major ethnic cleansing happened in 1948, the Lisbon Lions were almost 2 decades in the future. Or even more startling: if I calculated right, Celtic are 136 years old this year and the Nakba was 1948 so 61 years into our history. The Palestinian people have been facing this for more than half of our history.

It is always appropriate to raise the Palestinian flag in solidarity with these people.

The Israeli flag depends more on context. There are circumstances where it could be appropriate for some (perhaps Celtic fans with Jewish roots) to fly an Israeli flag in solidarity, such as the weekend of the terror attack; but definitely not while the Israeli airforce is subjecting Gaza to the current terrifying bombardment.

* Which in no way absolves HAMAS of its responsibility. Not one iota.

 

Celtic accusing GB of trying to break in to Celtic park.
If true, they should be banned.
If not then Celtic should be made to apologise.

 

I don’t need the history lesson mate - everyone here agrees that the people of Palestine have been victims of oppression and cruelty for decades.

The key thing is - all flags depend on context. That is literally the fundamental aspect of symbolism (which flags are).

To millions of people across the Indian sub-continent, the swastika symbol is generally seen as a mark of well being (it’s more complicated, and varies by religious group but that’s incidental to my point). Wave that same symbol following an attack on a mosque in the US, or at one of the recent Palestinian rallies, and it means something very different.

The IDF flag is shown below.

The vast majority of people walking past this flag wouldn’t recognise it in isn’t way whatsoever. Going back to the hospital bombing situation - imagine Israel had commited it and simply said ‘yeah it was us - big deal’. Someone then waving an Israeli flag in the immediate aftermath of that event would understandably be seen as being supporting that event, and no amount of “well actually this is the flag of the Israeli people and not the IDF” would wash (particularly when even that level of clarification wasn’t offered by the GB, despite the opportunity being provided).

One of the most crucial things people can do for the long term well-being of the the Palestinian people is draw a clear distinction between Hamas and the Palestinian people themselves. The GB did not help in that regards - not with the flag, not with the banner, and not with their statements after it.

That’s all I’ll say on it as it’s been done to death, but there’s absolutely nobody convincing me it wasn’t done deliberately with the attack on Israeli innocents in mind, which is understandably seen as support of that act - which is something I’ll never abide by.

 

If it was the first time the Palestinian flag had been flown, or even the first time this season by the GB, you might have a point and something to base your argument on. The flag has been flown for years and years though and has been seen numerous times this season. So you are talking rubbish basically.

 

Honestly think tomorrow they wull be banned

 

You're not wrong with what you say. But what business does it have at Celtic park? If you want to go and protest and wave flags in support of Palestine, there are more productive things you can do. Waving flags inside Parkhead wont make one iota of difference, nor should it be used as a platform to voice political opinions from a country and region that has f*uck all to do with you me or Celtic.

 

It's getting * ridiculous with the board vs GB.

These guys split opinion 100%.

Uefa are even worse the cartel *

Uefa: no politics in football, fines for Palestinian flags at matches. Political statements not allowed.

Same Uefa: kept Ukraine & Russian teams apart in draws, same with serb & croat teams. Also openly support Ukraine by banning Russia & allowing Ukraine flags at matches and "peace" on hoardings in Ukrainian.

Hope the money grabbing cartel fine us we will match it again!